What is a life spent caring for a family worth? Our guest learned an insurer's answer the day it reduced hers to three words: just a housewife. The work of making a house a home can hold enormous value and still be assigned none.

On The ManFlu, host Lucy McAfee talks with Lori Sugarman-Li, a family systems strategist, speaker, and Certified Fair Play Facilitator, about invisible labor, the mental load, and what children learn from watching who carries the work of home. After a 15-year marketing career with Kraft Foods and Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, Lori shifted full-time into what she calls the economy of care. Her experience eventually led her to Fair Play, the system created by Eve Rodsky, and a new way of thinking about how families talk about household responsibility.

For parents looking for a fair play method for kids, Lori's approach starts with helping children see themselves as participants in family life rather than occasional helpers. She points to research showing that the gender gap begins early, with girls ages 5–14 already doing more unpaid care and domestic work than boys their age. As a mom of two teenage sons, Lori talks about raising boys to share household labor, giving kids meaningful responsibility, and letting them learn through mistakes.

She also shares her perspective on teaching kids chores without allowance, separating household contributions from financial literacy so caring for a family isn't reduced to a paycheck. The bigger goal is not a perfectly folded load of laundry. It is creating more room for equal rest, joy, connection, and responsibility across the family.

Lori's one small shift starts with gratitude. The work of home may still be repetitive and exhausting, but changing how a family sees that work can change how they value it, share it, and show up for one another. Her award-winning children's book, Our Home: The Love, Work, and Heart of Family, carries the same idea to the youngest readers, reframing the everyday jobs of home as acts of love.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Welcome And Meeting Lori Sugarman-Li

02:27 The Disability Insurance Denial That Changed Everything

09:51 Rebranding Chores As Acts Of Gratitude

15:52 Resetting Roles After Falling Into Old Scripts

19:43 Equal Leisure Time And Equal Joy

23:18 Building Your Family's Core Values Together

26:22 Matching Kids To Tasks They're Wired For

29:19 Teaching Kids Chores Without Tying Them To Allowance

32:28 Raising Boys To Value Unpaid Care Work

39:22 Letting Kids Learn From Their Own Mistakes

42:59 One Small Shift For Leading With Gratitude

Connect with Lori Sugarman-Li:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ourhomeourpride/ 

Website: https://ourhomeourpride.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lori-sugarman-li-50592911

Connect with Lucy McAfee:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucypmcafee 

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/lucymcafee

Show Website: https://shows.acast.com/the-manflu

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you ever get to the end of the day, a day where you genuinely never stopped moving, and still feel like you somehow failed? That feeling usually isn't proof that you fell short. It's proof that you're chasing a standard that was never realistic to begin with.

Host Lucy McAfee talks with Jess Weisz, former McKinsey consultant, writer, coach, and creator of Rule Breaker, about the invisible standards behind working parent burnout, and why high-achieving parents can spend an entire day getting things done and still feel like they failed.

It started with a notebook. Six months postpartum, Jess's partner asked her to write down everything on her mind. What poured out wasn't a to-do list. It was a heaping pile of expectations no one could realistically meet, and that mental load became the work of Rule Breaker.

Jess pulls out her childhood report cards to get at something deeper: judgment. We're raised being graded, taught to prove ourselves against a fixed set of expectations, and no one ever sends the memo that the report cards stop coming once we graduate. We just keep grading ourselves against one that no longer exists.

That pressure shows up in surprisingly small places. For Jess, homemade muffins can feel like proof that she's doing motherhood right, and a granola bar can trigger the opposite reaction. She and Lucy unpack self-esteem and motherhood, and how easily our sense of worth gets pegged to the most ordinary choices.

Part of the trap is confusing capability with capacity. Being able to do something doesn't mean you have the time, energy, or space for it right now. Work-life balance for working parents can look less like finding the perfect schedule and more like letting go of unrealistic parenting expectations. Jess shares how to question the rules running in the background, decide which expectations deserve your attention, set boundaries around the rest, and recognize when something is enough. She leaves listeners with one question to reach for when mom guilt starts creeping in.

Did I agree to this rule?

Press play to hear the full conversation, and follow The ManFlu with Lucy McAfee for more conversations about the scripts shaping how we parent, partner, and share the load at home.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Welcome To The ManFlu With Lucy McAfee

00:39 Meet Jess Weisz, Creator Of Rule Breaker

02:03 What The Rule Breaker Reset Is All About

03:38 The Notebook That Started This Whole Reckoning

06:05 Social Media And The Rise Of Working Mom Guilt

10:10 Where This Impossible Standard Actually Came From

14:19 The Report Cards We Never Stop Grading Ourselves Against

15:32 Awareness, Choice, And Enoughness Explained

22:09 Pegging Self-Esteem To Muffins And Meals

27:32 Identity Versus Values When Choosing Your Rules

30:49 Real Rules People Have Put In The Corner

39:44 The One Small Shift: Did I Agree To This Rule?

Connect with Jess Weisz:

Substack: rulebreaker.substack.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jessicaweisz

Website: reset.rulebreaker.co

Insta: @rulebreakerjess

Connect with Lucy McAfee:

Instagram: @lucypmcafee

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/lucymcafee

Show Website: https://shows.acast.com/the-manflu

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Everyone tells new parents it takes a village. Nobody mentions that making mom friends as an adult is genuinely hard and can feel more like dating: is it weird to ask for her number? Do I look like a stalker?

Host Lucy McAfee talks with Jessica Hill, founder and CEO of The Parent Collective, about building your village as a new mom. Jessica spent ten years in England, where prenatal classes grouped expectant parents by neighborhood and due date. She left with a built-in support system and friendships that lasted long after the newborn stage. When she returned to the States, she found playgrounds full of mothers who said they did not find their people until their kids started school. That gap became the reason she created The Parent Collective.

Jessica explains how to build a support system as a new mom when those connections do not happen automatically. Her advice is simple, though not always easy: choose something you genuinely care about, put yourself in places where you will see the same people regularly, and keep showing up when the first few attempts do not lead anywhere. You may not meet a lifelong best friend. Sometimes a "for-now friend" who understands the exact season you are in is enough to make motherhood feel less isolating. And if the newborn stage came and went without your people showing up, it's not too late. Jessica shares practical ways to start building that village right now, wherever you are.

The conversation turns to the Fair Play method, the mental load, and maternal gatekeeping. Jessica shares how a bedtime dance party helped her recognize that her husband needed room to parent in his own way and create separate traditions with their sons. She explains how they divided responsibilities around weekend meals, soccer, and the Saturday "curriculum" he created for their boys. The episode closes with one practical shift for a fairer partnership: when one parent gets protected free time, the other should receive it too, and both should be encouraged to spend that time doing something that restores them.

Press play for practical ways to make mom friends, share the parenting load, and raise boys who understand what it means to show up for the people they love.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Meet Jessica Hill, Founder of The Parent Collective

02:26 Ten Years In England And A Built-In Village

09:54 When Your Village Lives Online

11:51 Why Asking For Help Feels Like Weakness

15:51 Inside The Parent Collective's Four Week Class Series

19:59 The Power Of Finding A For Now Friend

22:18 Building Your Village Beyond The Newborn Phase

29:58 The Bedtime Dance Party That Changed the Rules

34:53 Splitting Parenting Roles And Raising Partner-Ready Boys

40:52 The One Small Shift: Free Time That's Actually Fair

Connect with Jessica Hill:

Visit The Parent Collective website

Follow The Parent Collective on Instagram

Connect with Jessica on LinkedIn

Connect with Lucy McAfee:

Follow Lucy on Instagram

Connect with Lucy on LinkedIn

Visit The ManFlu website

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Connection isn't something boys lack. It's something that gets nurtured, at the dinner table, on the drive home, in all the small moments in between. And right now, screens are competing for too many of those moments.

Host Lucy McAfee talks with licensed marriage and family therapist Julie Messer about raising boys who can stay present, emotionally aware, and connected in a world built around quick rewards. As a therapist and fellow boy mom, Julie sees young men struggling with loneliness, anxiety, pornography, video games, and the ability to express what they feel. Those patterns often begin much earlier, through what boys learn about relationships, attention, and emotional intelligence at home.

When mothers carry the mental load and become the parent everyone relies on, sons absorb that model of partnership. Fathers may miss everyday opportunities to build closeness through caregiving, chores, and the ordinary work of family life. Screens can deepen the disconnect by replacing the slower experiences that build patience, creativity, and real relationships. Julie also shares two of her favorite antidotes: unstructured time in nature and raising boys who love to read, both quiet gateways to empathy and attention.

Julie explains why delayed gratification matters, why individual screens raise particular concerns, and why kids need more chances to work, wait, create, and connect without constant stimulation. Lucy is honest about her own family's screen habits and the difficulty of choosing connection when connection requires more energy. This conversation is not about perfect parenting. It is about noticing what boys are learning and making small changes while there is still time: sharing responsibility at home, creating more communal experiences, and teaching boys how to show up for the people around them.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Welcome And Meeting Therapist Julie Messer

02:25 The Most Common Friction Point Julie Sees In Therapy

05:46 Why The Dish Was Never About The Dish

08:16 How Mental Load Gets Modeled For Our Sons

09:40 Breaking The Mommy Does Everything Pattern

12:18 What Hunt Gather Parent Taught Julie About Independence

15:24 Overparenting, Anxiety, And The Anxious Generation

19:48 Why Patriarchy Fails Men Too

22:14 Screens, Sports, And Hijacking The Dopamine System

25:42 Sports, Mental Load, And What Men Remember

26:43 Parallel Play: How Boys Learn Side By Side

30:48 What A Week At Screen-Free Camp Changed

32:36 Nature As The Antidote

35:07 Raising Readers, Raising Empathy

41:10 Teaching Kids Delayed Gratification

43:14 One Small Shift To Build Real Connection

Books referenced:

• A Little Scribble SPOT and the A Little SPOT series by Diane Alber — https://www.dianealber.com/collections/spot-series (single book: https://www.dianealber.com/products/a-little-scribble-spot-a-story-about-colorful-emotions)

• Hunt, Gather, Parent by Michaeleen Doucleff — https://bookshop.org/p/books/hunt-gather-parent-what-ancient-cultures-can-teach-us-about-the-lost-art-of-raising-happy-helpful-little-humans-michaeleen-doucleff/5848320ecc6fea42?ean=9781982149680

• The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt — https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-anxious-generation-how-the-great-rewiring-of-childhood-is-causing-an-epidemic-of-mental-illness-jonathan-haidt/e7dfa59b478f9574?ean=9780593655030

• Dopamine Nation by Dr. Anna Lembke — https://bookshop.org/p/books/dopamine-nation-finding-balance-in-the-age-of-indulgence-dr-anna-lembke/6cec20cd059cbe98?ean=9781524746742

• This Is How Your Marriage Ends by Matthew Fray — https://bookshop.org/p/books/this-is-how-your-marriage-ends-a-hopeful-approach-to-saving-relationships-matthew-fray/d1e48fbd9afa7612?ean=9780063072268

Connect with Julie Messer:

Visit Julie's website 

Connect with Lucy McAfee:

Follow Lucy on Instagram

Connect with Lucy on LinkedIn

Visit The ManFlu website

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Our guest today irons his wife's clothes before putting them away, not because she asked, but because he understands that protecting her time is part of what providing means. This episode is about how he got there and what it really takes to build that kind of partnership.

Lucy McAfee sits down with Brian Page, founder of Modern Husbands, to talk about what equal partnership in marriage actually requires beyond good intentions. Brian spent years as a primary earner working 60 to 80 hours a week. When his wife's career took off and the family needed a different setup, he stepped back and tried to figure out how to genuinely take ownership at home. He searched for guidance and found almost nothing useful. So he read every book and piece of research he could find, built an advisory board, and turned that search into a platform helping couples do the same.

Brian breaks down why the mental load in marriage stays heavy even when a partner is willing to help. Willingness is not ownership. Real ownership means handling a task from start to finish at a shared minimum standard of care, without reminders and without someone watching over your shoulder. He and Lucy also get into gatekeeping, why it happens, and how couples get through it without creating more resentment.

They dig into domestic labor in marriage and what fair play for couples looks like when it moves from a concept into a weekly habit. Brian also reframes the provider role in marriage to include protecting your partner's time, not just bringing in income. He explains how he stopped giving his wife's phone number to schools, realtors, and anyone connected to tasks he owned.

The episode closes on equal leisure time as a real indicator of how balanced a partnership is, and Brian leaves listeners with two low-effort, practical shifts to try this week. If equal partnership in marriage feels like a moving target in your home, this episode gives you something concrete to work with.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Welcome to The Manflu with Lucy McAfee

01:49 Brian Page on Building Modern Husbands

02:15 Brian's Shift From Breadwinner to Home Manager

06:19 Working Through Gatekeeping at Home

08:45 What Hidden Brain Research Reveals About Gender Bias

11:08 A Simple Way to Protect Your Partner's Time

13:35 Where Dual Income Couples Get Stuck

16:01 Learning the Fair Play Method Step by Step

22:31 Why Equal Leisure Time Matters

24:38 Stay At Home Parents Deserve a Break Too

27:26 Motivating a Partner Who Won't Step Up

32:43 Moving From Financial Provider to Teammate

35:04 Untangling the Man Box and Mental Health

37:12 Raising Boys Who Value Partnership

41:50 Two Small Shifts to Try This Week

44:11 Where to Find Modern Husbands Resources

Connect with Brian Page:

Visit The Modern Husbands Website 

Follow the Modern Husbands on Instagram

Listen to the Modern Husbands Podcast

Connect with Lucy McAfee:

Follow Lucy on Instagram

Connect with Lucy on LinkedIn

Visit The Manflu website

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There's a specific grief a lot of boy moms feel but isn't often said out loud. It's one Sarah Koopmann and Lucy McAfee both know well, and after years of Lucy turning to Sarah for boy-mom wisdom, there was no question she'd be the very first guest.

On this episode of The ManFlu, the two best friends of 30 years sit down for a conversation about raising emotionally connected boys. Sarah is a full-time working mom to sons ages 16, 14, and 12, and an HR executive at a global aerospace company. She opens up about grieving the daughter she thought she'd have, and how it shaped the intentional way she parents her sons today.

The conversation turns to the mental load in marriage. Sarah orders the groceries, builds the shared calendar, and keeps a Sunday whiteboard with the week's schedule; her husband cooks, coaches, covers carpool and genuinely enjoys vacuuming. Lucy and Sarah unpack why so many men still tie their worth to an outdated definition of "provider," and how invisible labor shows up in a modern partnership at home.

They also talk about the village every mom needs. Sarah intentionally lives in the community where she grew up, leans on neighbors for rides, and recently had a mom assemble a craft kit for her son without being asked. Her advice for anyone missing a village: go first, and be the one who asks.

They also get into the everyday work of raising respectful sons: how Sarah talks to her boys about empathy, showing up for their friends, and even dating etiquette as they get older.

The episode closes with Sarah's daily ritual for raising emotionally connected boys: hug them before school, hug them before bed, and don't let go first.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 Meet Sarah: Boy Mom, Working Mom, Best Friend Of 30 Years

02:19 Finding Out It's (Another) Boy

05:28 The Grief No One Talks About

08:23 The Fear Underneath, And A Reframe

12:28 Boys Feel It Too (They Just Show It Differently)

17:40 Balancing A Big Career With Raising Boys

20:09 Building Your Village (And Learning To Ask)

27:37 The Systems Behind A Busy Household

30:59 The Mental Load, Out Loud

34:17 What "Provider" Really Means

37:10 Raising Boys Who Treat People Well

39:00 One Small Shift For Overwhelmed Moms

41:22 Hug Them, And Don't Let Go First

Connect with Sarah Koopmann:

Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn

Connect with Lucy McAfee:

Follow Lucy on Instagram

Connect with Lucy on LinkedIn

Visit The ManFlu website

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When boys grow up in a world where caring isn't expected of them, they become men who don't realize what they're missing.

In the first episode of The ManFlu, host Lucy McAfee traces her thinking back to a phone call six years ago. She was thirty-eight, pregnant with her second child, and when the nurse said "it's a boy," she cried. They weren't happy tears. She knew exactly what she was mourning, and it went far beyond the ruffles and the bows. It was the lifelong closeness she wasn't sure she'd have with her sons.

A year later she was standing at her kitchen sink with an endless pile of pump parts, listening to a podcast about rebalancing the work of running a household. She was the one carrying the invisible to-do list, the mental load of anticipating, remembering, and coordinating. And she found herself asking why fixing it was her job too.

That's where the two questions collided. How do I raise boys who stay connected, and why is so much of running our household falling on me? They were two pieces of the same puzzle. Because the same scripts that leave men disconnected leave women raised believing they could have it all, carrying it all instead.

This isn't a blame session. What Lucy is fighting isn't men, it's the scripts we've all inherited, the ones that leave women overwhelmed, men disconnected, and neither showing up whole. Drawing on Fair Play by Eve Rodsky, All the Rage by Darcy Lockman, and Of Boys and Men by Richard Reeves, she makes the case that these struggles belong in the same conversation: the mental load women carry, and the emotional connection boys are never taught to build.

Episode Breakdown:

00:00 What The ManFlu Is Really a Metaphor For

02:26 The Phone Call, and the Tears That Surprised Her

04:50 Looking at Her Son and Seeing a Boy Who Already Cares

07:11 The Kitchen Sink, Fair Play, and the Invisible To-Do List

09:38 The Moment the Two Questions Collided

12:01 Her Mom Compared Him to Her Father. She Compared Him to Herself.

14:26 Raising Boys to Imagine Bigger Futures

16:48 Where This Podcast Wants to Live

Connect with Lucy McAfee:

Follow Lucy on Instagram

Connect with Lucy on LinkedIn

Visit The ManFlu website

Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You’ve heard of the “ManFlu” — that mysterious illness that somehow hits men way harder than any woman could ever fathom. Well, we’re not handing out tissues. We’re here to talk about the real stuff underneath it: the disconnection, the imbalance, and how we can start to change it.

The ManFlu is a metaphor we use to dig into something deeper: the cultural scripts, gender roles, and unspoken rules that keep men sidelined and leave women carrying more than their share of the mental and emotional load.

Host Lucy McAfee has spent years studying how gender dynamics play out at home. As a wife and boy mom, she’s still working them out in her own family. Each week, The ManFlu brings together researchers, thinkers, and families themselves to explore emotional labor, modern partnerships, and how we raise more connected boys. Together, we examine why these patterns persist, how they affect families, and the practical shifts that build stronger partnerships today and help break old patterns for the next generation. You’ll leave each episode not just nodding along, but equipped with one small shift you can try at home.

Join us to lighten the load and build a future where women and men can both show up as their whole selves. New episodes drop every Wednesday, follow the show so you don’t miss one. And share it with your friends, because no one should have to face the ManFlu epidemic alone.

Follow Lucy on Instagram @lucypmcafee for more on gender dynamics, mental and emotional load, and raising boys who care.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.