In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Arman, an underground hacker involved in the infamous Xbox Underground case -- an alleged conspiracy federal investigators said targeted Microsoft and its partners and was valued by the FBI at more than $100 million. Arman says he?s been hacking since he could type. Diagnosed with ADD, he found an early obsession and talent in computer programming, spending months in grade school learning how to break into systems most people didn?t even know existed. What started as a game quickly escalated: by fifth grade, he was hacking into his school?s mainframe, and soon after he claims he?d built a sprawling network of bots, giving him the power to control and monetize massive amounts of computing resources. As a teenager, Arman describes earning tens of thousands of dollars, funding his own operation, and even consulting at 14 or 15 years old. But the underground doesn?t just come with money and status. It comes with consequences. He recounts being swatted three times as a teen by rivals and enemies targeting him, and how the paranoia and cat-and-mouse dynamics of that world can follow you long after the hacks stop. (Yes, he even admits to doing things like cutting a teacher?s internet when he didn?t want to turn in homework.) Arman also tells Mariana about cooperating with the government as an informant, and what it?s like to move from ?black hat? life into ethical hacking. This interview is for reporting and education. We do not encourage or provide instructions for hacking. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award?winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ?YouTube? ?Instagram? ?Apple Podcasts? ?Spotify? MARIANA: ?TikTok? ?Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on The Hidden Third, I sit down with Owen Hanson, known as ?O-Dog? ? a former USC athlete whose hunger to win at all costs spiraled into a criminal operation spanning sports betting, drug trafficking, and money laundering. Hanson?s story was recently featured in Mark Wahlberg?s docu-series Cocaine Quarterback. But this conversation goes deeper than the headlines. He tells me how it started with his own performance-enhancing drug use ? and how, in his early twenties, it escalated into a high-stakes enterprise with international routes and ties to a major Mexican cartel. For a while, the operation felt untouchable. He lived in luxury, operated at the highest stakes, and wielded real power ? until it all came crashing down. I wanted to understand how a decorated student-athlete became a drug kingpin, and what it?s like to rebuild after losing everything. In one of the most intense conversations I?ve had on the show, Hanson opens up about his upbringing, the illegal enterprise he built, his trips into Mexico?s cartel territory, life inside federal prison, and what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award?winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube Instagram Apple Podcasts Spotify MARIANA: TikTok Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird to reach your financial goals faster. This week on The Hidden Third, I speak to Anna Sorokin, better known as ?Anna Delvey?, the infamous ?fake heiress? whose real-life story was later dramatized in Netflix?s ?Inventing Anna?. Anna posed as a wealthy German socialite, worked her way into New York?s elite circles, and used deception and manipulation to get banks, luxury hotels, and even friends to bankroll her lifestyle ? a modern case study in scams, grifting, and image. She was convicted of theft of services and grand larceny and served time in prison, becoming one of the most recognizable names in high-society con artistry. Today, her notoriety has morphed into a new kind of power: Anna has become an influencer with a massive social media following, taking on paid promotional partnerships and selling some of the illustrations she made in prison for tens of thousands of dollars. I wanted to understand who she is - behind the con artist. But Anna rarely opens up about her past and often comes across as unrepentant and dismissive about the harm she caused. That guardedness made this one of the hardest interviews I?ve ever done. There were several moments I thought she would walk out. But in the end, through a game of cat-and-mouse, she shares some of her past thinking and strategies for conning people, what life was like in prison, the friends she made there, the marriage proposals she received, and her plans for what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award?winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. The Hidden Third Show Sponsors Go to ?http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird? to reach your financial goals faster. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ??YouTube ?????Instagram ? ?Spotify? ? Apple Podcasts? MARIANA: ??YouTube TikTok ?Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Justin Paperny is a former stockbroker turned convicted felon. In this episode, he takes Mariana from the schemes that landed him in federal prison to how he now coaches white-collar criminals on surviving incarceration and rebuilding their lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Todd Thomas?s daughter was 12 when he discovered she was being groomed by a child predator. What he did next changed the course of his life. Mariana talks to Todd about the moment he found out, the choices he made, the failures that let this happen, and how he?s turned pain into purpose. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://expressvpn.com/hiddenthird to find out how you can get up to four extra months. At 21, Lisa Phillips was assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein, an ordeal that marked the start of years of grooming and manipulation. In this conversation with Mariana, she opens up about the trauma she endured, the system that enabled it, and her ongoing fight for justice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. Aliia Roza says she was trained by Russian intelligence in ?sexpionage? and later defected after falling in love with one of her targets. She shares her straight-out-of-Hollywood story with Mariana. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rob Archuleta takes Mariana from his meth-fueled days in Las Vegas to the grueling yet rewarding crucible of Ironman, tracing why he quit drugs and how the scrappy running club he founded, Addict2Athlete, is transforming lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. At 23, Sequoyah Thiessen moved to L.A., believing the ?Rehab Riviera? would help her kick opioids. Instead, she was pulled into the shadow economy of fraudulent rehab programs, where people in crisis are bought and sold on a multi-billion-dollar black market. She sits down with Mariana to talk about how this dangerous underworld works, who profits, and the way she turned her life around. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Days before reporting to prison, Mathew Bowyer, the bookie at the center of the Shohei Ohtani gambling scandal, sits down with Mariana to walk her through his illegal betting operation, why it collapsed, and what he believes Ohtani knew. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. Go to http://topodesigns.com and use code TOPOHIDDENTHIRD for 10% off your order. When Michael Santos was sentenced to 45 years in federal prison for cocaine trafficking, he turned a cell into a classroom, earning degrees, writing books, and, inspired by Frederick Douglass, becoming a leading voice for reform. He tells Mariana how the transformation happened, and what freedom looked like after decades behind bars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

FBI veteran Kurt McKenzie joins Mariana for the inside story of Operation Oxy Alley- the takedown of what?s widely described as the largest pill-mill trafficking operation in U.S. history. Mariana recounts her own investigation and how it led to her being chased down I-95 by the brothers at the center of the case, and how it wasn?t the last McKenzie investigation she got pulled into. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pro skater and actor Fabian Alomar takes Mariana from L.A.?s skate scene to years in a high-security prison, where survival meant being ready for anything - even stashing blades where the sun doesn?t shine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Emmy and Peabody Award?winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. Launching October 15th! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices