Brit subs in for Jess as Sam and Dave unpack the AI IPO boom, including SpaceX, Anthropic, and Cerebras, debate whether AI agents can actually replace employees, and react live to the discovery that Slow?s @slow Instagram account was stolen through a Meta AI support exploit. The conversation spans OpenClaw?s enterprise push, recent AI funding rounds, the AI wrapper debate, and Sam?s latest investing thesis that startup pitches should look more like movie trailers than decks, before ending with a pop culture corner into Taylor Swift, AI-generated podcasts for kids, and the future of TBPN after the OpenAI deal.

Chapters:

02:53 AI IPO Season: SpaceX, Anthropic & Cerebras

05:29 Narrative Capitalism: Storing Value in Stories

11:34 What the AI IPO Wave Means for Silicon Valley

15:02 Microsoft Build: OpenClaw Goes Enterprise

17:38 Would You Trade Your Employee for an AI Agent?

25:19 LIVE: Slow Ventures? Instagram Gets Hacked via Meta AI

30:04 Are AI Harnesses Just Fancy PDFs?

31:49 Recent AI Raises & the SaaS Comeback

33:01 The New Pitch: Movie Trailers Over Decks

41:17 AI-Generated Podcasts, Voice Cloning & Consumer AI

42:54 TBPN Update: Post-OpenAI Deal

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This week on More or Less, Amir Efrati of The Information joins Jessica, Brit, and Dave to unpack the growing intersection of AI, government, and national security, from the rumored stalled executive AI order to why frontier model companies may soon face deeper U.S. oversight and pre-release access demands. The group debates whether slowing AI adoption is really a pricing and UX problem, why AI agents are causing token consumption to explode, and whether most consumers even want an always-on personal agent. They also dive into the geopolitical implications of data centers and open-source software, AI?s impact on entertainment and voice cloning, Hollywood?s anxiety over originality, and the strange new world where even papal writings prompt questions about whether AI had a hand in shaping the message.Chapters:1:57 ? AI Predictions, Whispering to Models & Forecasting the Future4:37 ? AI, National Security & the Trump Administration6:52 ? The Pope?s AI Document, Closed Models & Security Risks11:56 ? AI Regulation, Job Fears & Public Sentiment15:45 ? Is AI Adoption Slowing Down? Pricing, ROI & Enterprise Reality21:00 ? Agents, CIOs & Whether Mainstream Users Will Ever Embrace AI36:00 ? AI Entertainment, Voice Cloning & Hollywood?s Future41:52 ? Going Off-Grid, Book Recommendations & Digital Detoxes47:00 ? Mark Rober, CrunchLabs & the $10,000 Bullseye StoryWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/OyC7N42o36sConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

This week on More or Less, the crew unpacks IPO speculation around OpenAI and SpaceX, debates whether AI?s economics ultimately favor recurring API spend or owning infrastructure outright, questions if Google?s distribution advantage is enough to win the AI race despite muddled product execution, and wrestles with whether today?s AI valuations are driven by real fundamentals or pure mimetic momentum, alongside broader debates on broken AI user experience, data center concentration risk, agentic search killing SEO, and whether skilled trades like plumbing may ultimately prove more durable than many white-collar jobs in the AI era.Chapters:01:35 ? Brit?s fish disaster story + the fish microbiome economy04:50 ? Dell World, AI PCs, and the tokenomics debate (API spend vs. owning infrastructure)11:00 ? Google I/O recap: agentic search, generative UI, Android glasses, and whether Google is actually back16:30 ? Google?s UX problem: why AI still feels broken for normal users20:00 ? Anthropic vs. Google: focused monolith vs. sprawling empire22:10 ? OpenAI IPO speculation + Anthropic?s mega-round: what do you have to believe at $1T valuations?29:30 ? The ?hate invest? thesis: public sentiment, retail risk, and crypto déjà vu34:20 ? Portfolio debate: SpaceX vs. Anthropic vs. OpenAI35:00 ? Sam builds an AI token pricing dashboard live + how companies actually burn $30K/month on tokens37:00 ? What?s next in AI research? Memory, world models, and where infra plays went42:30 ? White House AI model oversight rumors + OpenAI?s Elon legal update50:10 ? AI side projects, kids learning to code, and why plumbers may win the AI eraWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The squad is complete again, and Sam arrives with a NeuroPod, cold plunge updates, red light therapy, Oura stats, and enough supplements to start a wellness startup. Then into the week?s biggest tech stories: Google?s new AI device and whether it?s the Chromebook of the AI era or another doomed health-tech experiment, Meta?s keystroke logging controversy, Microsoft?s increasingly awkward OpenAI bet, why OpenAI and Anthropic are now sending engineers directly into enterprises to drive adoption, and what tools like OpenClaw, Py, and Codex actually do. Plus, Anthropic?s eye-watering latest valuation, the clean girl aesthetic discourse, Brian Johnson chaos, and Sam personally buying Jackson Hole ski passes like it?s 1997Chapters:00:46 Sam?s NeuroPod, Oura Results & Biohacking Spiral03:33 Sam vs. Brian Johnson + The Female Biohacker Opportunity05:09 Oura Ring vs. Whoop + Google?s Wearables Ambition07:00 Google?s AI-First ?Book? Laptop + DeepMind?s Health Push10:30 Why Local AI Changes Everything (Speed, Cost & Compute)15:00 Where Is the OpenAI Consumer Device?16:00 Voice AI, Recording & the Future of Human-Computer Input20:30 Sam Built His Own Voice-to-AI App22:31 Meta?s Keystroke Logging: Spy Games or Honeypot?24:00 Fake AI Jobs + Sam?s ?Fin Analytics? Prediction27:02 OpenAI & Anthropic?s Enterprise Conversion Strategy29:31 The AI Backlash Is Real (Including UCF?s Commencement Revolt)31:30 Microsoft?s $100B OpenAI Problem39:31 Anthropic?s Massive Raise + SF Real Estate Absurdity41:30 OpenClaw, Py & Codex: What Is a Harness?We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYoutube: https://youtu.be/-O3zyxR-wS0Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Jess, Britt, and Dave unpack everything from Home Depot runs and closet ?re-jiggers? to the internet?s growing backlash against tech wealth, AI, and Silicon Valley culture. The squad debates whether the Met Gala became a symbol of ?techlash,? how layoffs and AI anxiety are reshaping public sentiment, and whether AI will actually democratize opportunity or simply concentrate power faster. They also dive into the wild new AI alliances between Anthropic, Elon, and hyperscalers, the latest OpenAI vs Elon trial drama, and why product adoption, not regulation, will decide the future of AI. Plus, Dave shares major OpenClaw updates, real-world AI workflow automations, Meta fork rumors, and the surprisingly relatable use case of turning meeting transcripts into family ?receipt printer? briefings. Rounded out with solo movie dates, Taylor Swift theories, Star Wars discourse, and the state of flake culture.Chapters:00:58 Jess' Home Renovation Project While Sam is Out03:54 Met Gala: When the Bezoses Became the Story07:13 Techlash, Wealthlash, and the AI Jobs Backlash09:36 Trump?s Surprise Pivot Toward AI Regulation11:51 China, Open-Source Models, and Dave?s $5K Blackwell Desktop14:13 The Optimistic Case: AI as the Great Wealth Equalizer17:55 The Pessimistic Case: Tools Democratize, Economics Consolidate19:43 What Changes Public Sentiment: Better Products, Not Better Arguments22:42 Layoffs: Pandemic Hangover or AI Substitution?27:56 Why Almost No One Is Actually Using AI Yet33:15 Anthropic?s Compute Scramble and the SpaceX/Colossus Deal36:27 Dario vs. Elon: Two Very Different Operators39:55 The OpenAI vs. Musk Trial: TMZ or Substance?45:33 Polymarket, Twitter-Mention Betting, and ChatGPT Comeback46:42 OpenClaw Update: Foundation, Plugin Architecture, China Forks50:08 Granola + Claude Code: Replacing Salesforce in 30 Minutes53:36 Devil Wears Prada, Solo Movie Dates, and the Death of Journalism55:01 Music & Pop Culture: Ella Langley, Teddy Swims, Toy Story 556:36 Why Star Wars Keeps Missing

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This week on More or Less, the crew kicks off with a very on-brand derail?Stagecoach turning into a wind-blown 90s reunion-turned-half-capacity vibe, segueing into a chaotic trend report of ?booty shorts vs. jorts? before Jessica reframes it as ?OpenAI or jorts.? From there, it?s into the real storylines: the Musk v. OpenAI trial in Oakland (Altman and Brockman showing up, Musk posturing, and the judge shutting down theatrics), and whether it?s substance or just WWE for tech. The AI race heats up with reports of ChatGPT missing targets while Anthropic pulls ahead, sparking a broader debate on whether frontier models are sliding into commodity territory?Sam argues narrative over fundamentals while Dave pushes on open-source pressure and who actually foots the data center bill. The conversation expands into geopolitics (regulatory capture, China?s open-source momentum, Meta?s blocked agent play) and earnings (Google Cloud riding Anthropic demand), landing on a sneaky insight: AI?s real cost explosion might be storage, not tokens. They close with a rapid-fire culture sweep?Maria Sharapova?s podcast, NYT rankings, Elon?s Mars comp fantasy, Met Gala backlash, and the final punchline: YouTube growth is way more gameable than anyone wants to admit.Chapters: 00:34 ? Stagecoach Chaos: Tornado Winds & Half-Crowd Vibes

01:43 ? Summer Trend Report: Booty Shorts vs. Jorts

02:56 ? ?OpenAI or Jorts?? The Hard Pivot

04:15 ? Musk vs OpenAI Trial Begins (And It?s Already Messy)

06:40 ? Gag Orders, Jury Drama & Musk?s Opening Stunt

09:03 ? Is This Lawsuit Just WWE for Tech?

11:46 ? Anthropic Passes OpenAI?! The AI Power Shift

13:57 ? AI Is Becoming a Commodity (Sam?s Take)

15:24 ? The Real Cost of AI: Tokens vs Labor

18:53 ? Open Source Is Eating Everything

21:08 ? Outcome-Based Pricing: Fix or Race to Zero?

23:16 ? ?This Is a Bad Business? (But Everyone Uses It)

26:04 ? The Only AI Moat: Regulation or Narrative

29:02 ? Why Frontier Models Still Matter

32:04 ? China, Open Source & AI Geopolitics

35:06 ? Meta?s Blocked AI Deal (Spy Game Energy)

38:07 ? Google Wins the AI Race (For Now)

41:23 ? The $5B Opportunity Nobody?s Talking About

43:34 ? The Real AI Trade: Storage > Tokens

46:58 ? Investing Is Dead, Long Live Narrative

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The full quad is back and we're getting right into the tech drama: AI backlash (from Reese Witherspoon to everyday skepticism), breakthrough science like CRISPR entering its ?it actually works? era, and major power shifts across tech ? from Apple succession chatter to Jensen Huang?s leadership moments and the brewing battle between OpenAI and Elon Musk. They squad digs into SpaceX IPO dynamics, the rise of ?traces? data as the next AI battleground, and what happens when AI gives more people the power to build. Chapters:0:17 ? Welcome Back: Full Quad Edition1:07 ? Creatine, AI Stuffies, and the Opening Chaos4:37 ? Breakthrough Prize & CRISPR Finally Working5:47 ? One-of-One Gene Therapy Becomes Real7:07 ? The AI Backlash Is Real8:47 ? UBI vs. Meaning: The Real Debate10:57 ? Jensen?s ?I Didn?t Wake Up a Loser Today? Moment12:47 ? Apple Succession: Tim Cook ? John Ternus16:17 ? Asset Prices vs. Reality21:17 ? Elon vs. OpenAI: The Trial27:07 ? SpaceX IPO: Biggest in History?29:27 ? xAI, Cursor, and the $60B Bet36:07 ? Traces Data: The Next AI Battleground40:07 ? Workplace Surveillance & Employee Data48:27 ? Who Gets to Build? (6B Users vs. 50M Builders)51:07 ? AI: Equalizer or Concentrator?We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/bjePLXg64n0Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

SpaceX might be the biggest IPO ever but there?s a math problem no one?s pricing in. Once you factor in capital gains, you need to believe it?ll underperform the market by ~50% just to justify selling. That creates an invisible floor under mega-cap stocks and a market increasingly detached from reality. Meanwhile: Allbirds goes from $4B to $40M and pivots to ?NewBird AI.? Seed valuations hit $175M ? 3x YoY, above 2021 peak. And AI labs are allegedly planting stories on each other. This week on More or Less: SpaceX?s $19B revenue / $5B losses, the AI bubble, Anthropic $800B rumors, and why fund math is breaking

Chapters:

0:00 ? Waymo vs. Uber: the autonomous tipping point

8:29 ? Allbirds: $4B ? $40M ? ?NewBird AI?

12:56 ? Boom Supersonic and the data center pivot

15:17 ? SpaceX IPO: bulls vs. bears

16:14 ? The tax problem no one is pricing in

20:16 ? Can mega-cap still 50x?26:47 ? SpaceX breakdown: Starlink vs. launch

28:20 ? Anthropic $800B rumors

30:08 ? OpenAI vs. Anthropic: leaks and competition

31:08 ? The model switching problem (no real moat)

33:36 ? AI behavior shift: ?ask the agent?

38:17 ? AI labs running oppo research

40:05 ? Seed valuations surpass 2021 peak42:00 ? Fund math is broken

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Vercel CEO Guillermo Rauch breaks down the explosive rise of AI agents and what it means for the future of software infrastructure. He joins the Morins to unpack why Anthropic cut off OpenClaw users, why the SaaS subscription model is breaking down, how agents are reshaping cloud infrastructure, and why a new wave of ?supergeniuses? (from neurosurgeons to 17-year-olds) are building things no one thought possible. Plus: dreams.md, the future of personal agents, and why agents are becoming the new computer.Chapters:00:42 Intro: Guillermo Rauch, CEO and Founder of Vercel01:48 Vercel Explodes 5X Growth and AI Traffic Surge03:51 Why Anthropic Shut Down OpenClaw Users04:47 Coding Agents Are the Path to AGI07:57 70 Percent of Vercel Traffic Is Now AI09:50 SaaS Is Dead Pay Per Token Takes Over13:16 Anthropic vs OpenClaw Closed vs Open Agents14:47 The Hidden Risk of AI Data and Training16:38 Why Everyone Wants Their Own AI18:08 The Shift to Agent Native Infrastructure19:45 Vibe Coded Apps Are Going Viral21:42 The AI Wars Anthropic OpenAI Elon23:15 Dreams md Self Improving AI Agents25:44 Memory Theory of Mind and Agent Intelligence28:05 Your AI Should Travel With You30:00 Enterprise AI and Domain Expert Agents31:15 How Vercel Became an AI Native Company33:06 Hiring in the Age of AI Agents36:03 The Rise of Supergeniuses38:10 Inside Slows Creator AI Hackathon40:06 AI Agents Are the New Customers41:18 Moving Up the Stack Again42:05 What Happens in the Next 12 Months43:48 AI Will Break Cloud and SecurityWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/f43JCxhKLEgConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Sam Lessin accidentally emailed 40 of Silicon Valley's most important people using an AI bot ? and that one mishap reveals everything broken about the AI security model right now. In this episode, Sam and Dave Morin (calling in from ClawCon Tokyo) argue that AI agents are quietly dismantling every security assumption the internet was built on: from open-source package trust chains to content moderation walls to the entire premise of software moats. Meanwhile, Jessica Lessin shares her own Claude Code disaster that proves even careful people are one 'approve' click away from chaos. The team also tears apart OpenAI's $852 billion valuation, debate whether 10 million software developers are about to become irrelevant, and explain why a professional skier in Alaska just built the app she'd been pitching for two years ? in a single afternoon.

Chapters:

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Jess and Brit take the reins on this week's More or Less ? and they're not exactly missing their husbands. They're joined by Henrik Werdelin (Audos), who's building a platform that takes solo founders from zero to funded company using AI agents, and Ben Broca (Polsia), a literal one-human, zero-employee founder who argues AGI is already here. What follows is a sharp, funny debate about whether solo "donkeycorns" are the future of entrepreneurship, where AI actually hits its limits, and why defensibility in an AI world might come down to the most analog thing of all ? knowing yourself and the humans you serve.

Chapters:

1:05 ? Britt & Jess take over More or Less

3:15 ? Meet Henrik Werdelin (Audos) & Ben Broca (Polsia)

5:00 ? The Donkeycorn Era: Solo founders making millions with AI

8:15 ? "AGI Is Here" ? Ben's case for one founder, zero employees

10:30 ? Jess vs. Ben: "My Claude can't remember" / "Skill issue"

17:00 ? When AI suggested fecal transplant businesses (Henrik's wild early experiments)

19:00 ? Relationship Capital: The real moat in an AI world

23:00 ? Building an economy, not a tool ? Ben's vision for Polsia

25:30 ? Will AI democratize opportunity or just commoditize it?

32:00 ? Bot Etiquette: When your AI emails psychics on your behalf

40:00 ? The Sora Shutdown: "It's all just electricity"

42:30 ? Is speed the only moat? Anthropic vs. OpenAI

46:30 ? The Brain Gym: Why knowing yourself matters more than ever

52:00 ? Wrap: SpaceX IPO, Aura IPO, and "Me, My Customer, and AI"

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It?s going to be a dense episode on OpenClaw?and another classic example of how skeptical Sam is about its future, battling against Dave. The episode starts with Dave?s announcement: The OpenClaw Foundation is now a chartered Delaware nonprofit. Then: GTC. Jessica hits the floor, takes seven selfies, and watches Jensen go for three hours with no notes. Dave explains why Nvidia gave OpenClaw 30 minutes of keynote time: NemoClaw, OpenShell, enterprise guardrails, local models, on-prem everything. Jessica breaks down The Information?s story about a rogue AI agent tripping internal security at Meta?which becomes the perfect setup for a broader point: trust isn?t a feature; it?s the entire game. Then Apple. BitRig?built by the people who literally created SwiftUI?has been stuck in App Store review since November because Guideline 2.5.2 says apps can?t download and execute code that changes functionality. The security logic tracks. Apple?s selective enforcement history? Less so. The crew closes with the part nobody?s ready for: Morin?s 11-year-old just formed his first LLC for a vibe-coded iOS game, and a group of 12-year-olds at an AI school in Austin out-shipped every adult developer at ClawCon.Chapters:02:14 - NVIDIA GTC Preview & Episode Roadmap02:54 - The Rise of the "Master of Bots" Role04:39 - Bot Anxiety & the Luxury AI vs. Cheap AI Divide08:55 - NVIDIA GTC: Jensen as AI's Storyteller-in-Chief17:21 - Nemo Claw, OpenShell & NVIDIA's Big OpenClaw Moment23:02 - What Even Is OpenClaw? Sam Challenges Dave29:51 - Breaking News: Rogue AI Agent Triggers Meta Security Alert38:54 - OpenAI's Enterprise Pivot & the Anthropic Revenue Race43:00 - Apple vs. Vibe Coding Apps: The App Store Bottleneck51:34 - Kids, Claws & Cool Family Tech (Board.fun, Next Playground)We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/PYJawV55QcUConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

It?s an AI-heavy episode with real stakes: Jessica digs into OpenAI?s evolving approach to shopping and why ?closing the loop? on commerce could be the proving ground for consumer monetization. The group sparrs over charts: OpenAI vs. Anthropic annualized revenue, what ?slope? investors actually care about, and whether Anthropic?s developer-first strategy (code, tokens, and high ARPU) is the smarter path than consumer mindshare.Sam argues that ?intelligence? is heading toward a global, frictionless commodity market (bad for margins, great for usage) and introduces the idea of ?dark pools? (proprietary access/data/relationships) as the only durable moat. Dave counters with the more optimistic take: AI is collapsing the line between ?consumer? and ?developer,? turning everyone into a builder, and launching a new creative medium (with examples spanning from software to film). Brit adds fuel with ?nano-targeted? commerce and a tour through A16Z?s Top 50 GenAI web products list, highlighting both mainstream shifts and the internet?s? more ?unexpected? categories.Finally: a truly out-of-left-field deal pitch from Jess: should someone buy the Tennis Channel for ~$1B? Plus a rapid-fire pop culture close (Kelce?s return, Oscars bets, and what everyone?s watching) before Sam heads back to the sauna.Chapters:0:00 ? Intro & Sam's Sauna Hat1:33 ? First-Ever MOL Podcast Ad3:54 ? ChatGPT's Shopping Pivot7:19 ? The Chart: OpenAI vs Anthropic Revenue11:52 ? The Slope: Linear or Super Linear?16:10 ? Commerce Is Bad. Attention Is Good.19:04 ? AI Is Turning Everyone Into a Builder20:15 ? "$1B Raised, $900M spent on Inference"23:17 ? AI Is Worse Than the Cable Business35:58 ? Dark Pools: Death of the Open Marketplace40:45 ? The P50 Problem: What Happens to Average People?42:38 ? "Software Is Totally Commoditized"45:43 ? Brit's Bot Corner: Anime Husband Chatbots 50:44 ? Should You Buy the Tennis Channel for $1B?54:22 ? Pop Culture CornerWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodOn demand reactions powered by AI: https://molchat.ai/ Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

This week the squad breaks down the Anthropic vs OpenAI drama (Fire Sam Altman is trending again), debates whether Apple is quietly winning the AI race by spending $0 while everyone else burns $100 billion, and confronts the question no one in Silicon Valley wants to answer: why aren't 200,000 software engineers talking about losing their jobs? Sam's answer: "Because it would be to admit you're in the 200,000 getting fired, not the 200,000 getting paid more." Plus: is China winning the open source AI phenomenon, is a recession coming (Lux Capital thinks so), and how Sam believes ?code is just content? despite having built six apps in a week while on conference calls, including an AI clone of the podcast using everyone's real voices. It?s your weekly dive of More or Less.

Chapters:

1:30 ? Fire Sam Altman Trending Again: Dario's Leaked Slack Memo

10:15 ? Sam's Vibe Coding Week: 6 Apps Including AI Versions of the Hosts

17:00 ? Why AI Content Tends to Zero

20:00 ? Apple M5 Chip: The Local AI Inference Play

23:30 ? Block Cuts 40% of Workforce

25:30 ? Will 200,000 Bay Area Software Engineers Lose Their Jobs?

30:00 ? "Code Wins Arguments ? But Now Everyone Can Code"

34:30 ? Josh Wolfe's (Lux Capital) Recession Warning Email

36:30 ? The Triangle Trade: DC, Silicon Valley & Wall Street's Narrative Collusion

39:00 ? Yemen/Houthi Strike & Defense Tech

41:00 ? Is Open Source AI a Chinese Phenomenon?

46:00 ? The Second Wave: Agents Are the Website of This Era

49:00 ? David's Protein Ice Cream

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Starting with a mini celebration: Dave defends his ski racing crown, before Sam declares software dead and capitalism broken. Even among GPs at Upfront Summit, the mood is uncertain: nobody knows whether to invest in software anymore, and many are quietly struggling to raise.The debate heats up over whether AI will democratize software creation or just accelerate capitalism's race to zero margins. Sam argues that when intelligence becomes abundant, it becomes worthless, making the entire AI industry, and by extension Silicon Valley, "pretty bad business." Dave counters that we're about to see a Cambrian explosion of software creators, finally giving billions of people agency over their digital lives.Plus: whether Stripe should buy PayPal during this opportunistic Trump-administration window, Gen Z panic-buying original iPods, Sam's shitposting-to-funding pipeline, and whether OnlyFans has the best KYC in fintechChapters:7:24 - Upfront Summit: Where Are All the LPs?

10:49 - Are VCs Still Investing in Software?

12:04 - Slow Ventures Going Contrarian: Investing While Others Freeze

13:27 - When Intelligence Goes to Zero: Why AI is Bad Business

15:53 - Polsia: $100K to $700K ARR in One Week (AI Agents Only)

19:39 - Capitalism's Black Hole: AI Makes Markets Too Efficient

25:00 - Creator Fund Thesis: Investing in Cults, Not Content

28:20 - Who Makes Money When Margins Hit Zero?

34:41 - Silicon Valley's Advantage is DEAD (The Magic Wizard Hat)

37:35 - Who Should Buy PayPal? (Stripe's One-Shot Window)

42:11 - Agentic Commerce: Do Payment Networks Even Matter?

45:18 - OpenAI Smart Speaker: Eddie Cue's Son Working on It

46:51 - Gen Z Buying Original iPods: The Analog Rebellion

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In this episode of More or Less, we go from Sam's urgent care drama to the hottest debates in AI. Dave dives into his news about joining the OpenClaw Foundation board as the fastest-growing open source project in internet history faces a new chapter. While the OpenClaw founder is heading to OpenAI, Meta is launching competing agents, and the battle for personal AI is officially ON. How the "Internet of Putting iPads on Things" era returning, Anthropic vs Pentagon drama, whether AI intelligence will become worthless like cheap electricity, and why your 'normie' friends will be sending you their vibe-coded apps within 12 months.

Chapters:

3:02 Sam's Ski Injury Saga

5:00 OpenClaw Founder Going To OpenAI & Dave's Foundation Role

8:07 OpenClaw vs. Manus (On-Device vs. Cloud)

11:02 Vibe Coding: Building an App a Day

12:03 Meta vs. OpenAI Rivalry

22:00 The Fundraising Market: Mega Rounds & Narrative Capitalism

27:04 The Big Debate: Bay Area Engineers in 3 Years

41:01 Anthropic vs. The Pentagon

45:01 Intelligence as a Commodity

53:50 Tennis with Madison Keys plug

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We're recording this from Jackson Hole after three days of wheeling and dealing?and yes, canceling meetings for powder. This week we're going deep on OpenClaw. The meetup had 1,500 people show up (Kevin Rose, Marissa Mayer, Ashton Kutcher were some notable guests). And now we're all spending thousands of dollars a month on AI agents we've named after Friends characters while debating whether "developer" is even a job title anymore.We talk about:?? ?Why founders are working 24/7 and possibly burning out?? ?The decentralized AI future (and why it's not great for OpenAI)?? ?Dark software factories where only agents write code?? ?Whether everyone's jobs are about to disappear (spoiler: we disagree)?? ?The SaaS-pocalypse coming for legacy software?? ?Personal AI sovereignty and why Apple's just sitting back laughingAlso: Google's CC assistant is? fine? And we have strong opinions about Heated Rivalry.Chapters:0:00 - Intro: Skiing in Jackson Hole2:30 - Conference Takeaways: Founders Are Working Relentlessly 7:15 - AI Burnout & the 24/7 Work Cycle12:40 - Naming Your AI Agents (Friends Edition)15:20 - How Much Are You Spending on Bots?18:45 - Google CC Assistant Review22:10 - OpenClaw Meetup: 1500 People Show Up28:30 - What Even Is a Developer Anymore?35:50 - OpenAI vs Decentralized AI: The Big Debate42:15 - Personal AI & Data Sovereignty47:20 - Dark Software Factories & Agentic Engineering52:10 - Are All the Jobs Going Away?55:40 - The SaaS Apocalypse58:20 - Pop Culture: Heated Rivalry, Nancy Guthrie Case, StrangersWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/KUA7ue5vB1EConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

This week on More or Less, three-quarters of the squad goes full AI-agent mode with Morin?s ClawCon, Sam?s LinkedIn bots, and Brit?s bot-agent-supervisor. We kick things off with The Information?s breaking story (and potentially trade of the year): Elon?s $1.2T SpaceX + xAI merger. Then we unpack why Jess thinks Jeff Bezos should sell The Washington Post, why media has to own the audience, and how ?vibe buys,? cult capitalism, and winner-take-all narratives are still the real moats shaping where money flows. The Dead Internet Theory starts feeling uncomfortably real and we touch on why the future swings back to IRL and community-driven experiences. Plus: the Super Bowl in NorCal, Brit?s Grammys rundown, and a cameo teaser.Chapters:00:53 ? Dave and MSG?s ClawCon04:05 ? Super Bowl Week in NorCal04:31 ? Today?s Agenda: SpaceX + xAI, WaPo Layoffs, AI Fatigue, Super Bowl Week in NorCal05:33 ? SpaceX + xAI Merger: Elon?s Narrative Assets and the Deal?s Winners & Losers17:27 ? Washington Post Layoffs and Why Bezos Should Sell21:19 ? Google Cloud Crushes Earnings22:22 ? B2B vs. B2C: Is OpenAI Throwing Spaghetti at the Wall?29:44 ? Claude?s ?No Ads? Jab at OpenAI32:12 ? The Squad?s OpenClaw Experiments41:39 ? Dead Internet Theory45:55 ? Super Bowl Logistics47:26 ? Pop Culture Corner: Grammys Recap49:08 ? Disney Names Parks Leader as CEOWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/sbhGfYsFUlsConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Jessica is back from Davos and is recapping her highlights on the pod this week. If you?re a loyal podcast ?viewer?, you?re in luck because Jess also brought photos from a recent Grace Cathedral sound bath visit before she dives deep into the Clawdbot/Moltbot/agentic moment. Dave is all in on what?s to come in this new age of agentic computers, and in true Sam fashion, he is less impressed by the technology and suggests that if the trend continues, it?s going to be bye bye internet. In the land of the other ?mature? AI companies, Jess recaps her Davos AI infra panel?s red-pill take on AI with the killer quote of the week: ?the appetite for intelligence is limitless.? But how true is all this demand and how much of it is really narrative? Could the rise in gold and silver prices really be a sign of technology shorting? The crew also reacts to the Minneapolis situation, debating whether it?s a scaling issue at ICE or a political move. Chapters:00:30 ? Jess Returns From Davos: No Snow, All SXSW Energy 03:40 ? Grace Cathedral Sound Baths06:25 ? Moltbot Heat Spike: Are AI Agents Ending the Internet? 17:29 ? Moltbot Has no Moat; Founders Should Be Memorable Instead21:26 ? Inside the Davos AI Panel: CoreWeave, G42, OpenAI & BlackRock?s Red Pill 29:47 ? Minneapolis, ICE, and How the Valley Is Reacting 51:03 ? The AI Chatbot Trap for Retail (And Why Everyone Will Fall for It) We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/OZDFAvRq7GcConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

While Jess is off being ?Davos-famous,? the squad kicks things off with the classic California vs. New York debate. From there, it?s straight into AI and VC chaos: absurd mega-seed rounds that break portfolio math, why even a great early bet like Anthropic wouldn?t return a seed fund, and a revisit of Sam?s view that there are only two ways to win right now?(1) have a real secret and stay capital-efficient, or (2) own the narrative. Dave flags a new ?walkout culture? in AI, where executives jump ship the moment incentives shift. The crew then debates whether AI is actually shaping ideas or just polishing them (a fancy spellcheck?), why the question matters more than the answer, and how personal, computer-driving ?Clawdbots? feel inevitable and maybe exactly where Apple should be headed, despite the security concerns. The episode rounds out with The Information's breaking news on Apple's AI pins, shrinking subscription moats and business-model shifts, plus detours into the New York Times? sauna-bros piece, Sam?s WTF Conference protest merch, Super Bowl plans, and more.Chapters:01:00 ? Hello Davos listeners!03:42 ? SF vs. New York: where VC actually wins05:41 ? The seed valuation "fairway" vs bloated-roads10:07 ? Anthropic & OpenAI: good wins, but bad seed returns11:58 ? AI founder drama: mercenary teams & narrative fundraising13:53 ? Did Claude write its own constitution?15:18 ? AI as spellcheck on steroids21:01 ? Ralph: autonomous AI agent loop24:03 ? What ClawdBot really is; symphony orchestrator26:51 ? The Information breaks: Apple?s AI wearable pin; are phones getting tired?29:02 ? The rise of ?orchestra compute? and hacked APIs31:44 ? Subscription models are at risk: Whoop, Eight Sleep, Peloton, Apple41:18 ? The New York Times' feature on Sauna Bros44:53 ? Sam's WTF Conference merch & Montana shooting plans46:34 ? Squad's Super Bowl plansWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/AgwMFLjxQa0Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

AI, AI, and more AI. Do you even live in Silicon Valley if you?re not talking about it every episode? This week, we go deep on how open-source vibe-coding tools are starting to replace the need for traditional SaaS contracts. Dave shows (and tells) how he used the open-source ?Claude bot? to reverse-engineer his Mural photo frames and spin up a better web UI in under 30 minutes. Brit test-drives Anthropic?s new Cowork, auto-mapping the entire seed VC market while it runs her browser, and celebrates how much these agents are boosting household productivity. Sam loves the power but calls local agents a massive security backdoor, argues trust will consolidate with Apple and Google, declares that ?software is not a business,? and announces we?ve officially entered the fart-app era of AI toys. Jessica flags rising panic among SaaS vendors. Don?t miss Sam?s hot-chick analogy and Brit?s Pop Corner to close it out ?Chapters:02:05 Vibe coding week: Anthropic's Claude Code & Cowork05:25 Dave's Reverse-engineering Mural frames08:30 AI Agents as a security nightmare12:03 AI?s Napster moment18:43 Software is no longer a defensible business24:00 Sam's investing: Quiet AI businesses or narrative ownership29:27 Offline's Seed alpha in illegible spaces33:06 When will platforms start to block APIs and protect their business?35:27 Shopify Founder and CEO, Tobi's Tweet on modern UI for MRI reading 43:34 GLP-1s & grocery spend45:06 The Information's Wealth tax poll result48:55 We're in the fart-app era of AIWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/2q99bDO-a1EConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The squad is back for 2026 with updates: Dave?s Montana ?Snow Report? (spoiler: none), Brit?s contrarian love letter to CES, and Sam?s new ?serious 40-year-old? fashion era. We go rapid-fire through the biggest headlines from the past few weeks we were offline?OpenAI?s health app, China cutting off the H200, and a wave of 2026 liquidity from SpaceX and AI that could mint centi-billionaires, or even trillionaires. Sam unpacks his viral 2026 memo, returning to a familiar theme from the pod: why narratives now matter more than reality, why seed should fund ?infinity stories,? and how AI is turning software into consumable media. We also dig into the hot topic of the week?California?s wealth tax and founder flight?plus AI partners, Claude-code mania, real-world clinical AI, America?s hat discourse, and one very specific New Year?s resolution (PS: this is why Sam is wearing a collared shirt). Welcome back to More or Less.

Chapters:01:04 Morin's Weather Report from Montana01:51 CES Corner: The Squad Yucks on Brit's Yum05:43 The Information: Breaking China's H200 ban (US Vs China Tech Trade War)07:22 Quick Recap: Gifting Etiquette for VCs10:00 2026 liquidity wave: Trillionaire era15:35 California's new wealth tax: Its losing out on the liquidity20:05 Sam?s 2026 memo: narratives > reality, seed strategy, and end of the SaaS era31:23 AI companions vs real-world relationships (embodiment over abstraction)48:52 OpenAI Health deep dive56:00 Sam?s new style (and hygiene routine) for 2026We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/DMEDrOnLAGMConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The pod signs off for the year with its final episode?a sharp, chaotic recap of last year?s predictions and a fresh round of hot takes for 2026. Sam and Dave, unsurprisingly, wing it: Sam calls a single $500B+ IPO (SpaceX), Google up, NVIDIA down, and Meta hitting new highs on AI-powered ads. Jess warns that AI-driven efficiency will fuel layoffs (especially in journalism) and that CapEx hype is outrunning reality. Dave predicts a boom in third places and games-first IP, while Britt bets on an Apple comeback, AI wearables as daily ?life summarizers,? a breakout AI-native social app, and a celebrity licensing their AI twin. True to form, the crew goes off script to debate Amazon?s rumored $10B OpenAI deal, AI as the new UI, which model builders survive, regulation looming over prediction markets, ?slop? as word of the year, GLP-1s going mainstream, creators eyeing Emmys, and much more. Chapters:

01:50 Morin?s ?Nauti or Nice? Holiday Card

04:06 Sam?s 2025 Predictions: Bitcoin, Solana ETFs, Crypto Government Adoption

05:16 Britt?s 2025 Predictions: Amazon Marketplace, Elon?s ?TITS,? Swift Engagement

07:52 Dave?s 2025 Predictions: Data Centers, Material Flow Robotics, Crypto Clarity

10:18 Jess?s 2025 Predictions: TikTok U.S., Vertical Stacks, Media Copyright, GLP-1s

11:40 2025 Themes: ?Slop,? AI Talent Wars, Government?Tech Ties

12:58 Big Tech Check-In: Apple Loses Ground, Google?s Delta

13:41 Amazon?s $10B OpenAI Bet and Chip Diplomacy

16:16 Britt?s 2026 Predictions: Apple Comeback, Wearable Agents, AI Talent Deals

21:45 Jess?s 2026 Predictions: AI-Driven Layoffs, Liquidity Wave, Prediction Market Regulation

28:57 Dave?s 2026 Predictions: Third Places, Games-First IP, Roblox Scrutiny

36:17 Sam?s 2026 Predictions: One $500B+ IPO, Nvidia Down, Google Up, Meta ATH

44:13 AI Is the New UI: SaaS UX Moats Under Pressure

49:35 Does AI Adult Content Go Mainstream?

50:04 Dave on Google Doppl and AI Try-On Tech

51:28 Britt?s Pop Corner: Taylor Swift Album and Pregnancy Speculation

52:19 Industry Wish List: More DPI, Kids? Mental Health, Waymos EverywhereWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/ehO3wIio7NwConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

This week?s a big one: the squad kicks it off with Starlink on planes, Zoox vs. Waymo, and YouTube?s skinny bundle before taking the big swing ? data centers in space as the emerging SpaceX-IPO narrative. Sam and Dave break down the real entrepreneurship skill: tell the huge story, earn the trust multiple, and consistently deliver ?20 cents on the dollar? to keep the flywheel of cash spinning (re: Elon Musk and Sam Altman but thread lightly, you don't want to end up like Elizabeth Holmes or Sam Bankman-Fried). Jess celebrates a win with The Information after getting CNBC to correct their reporting. Then they touch on how the backlash against AI is growing as the 101 billboards fill up with more AI company ads. From Sorkin?s 1929 zeitgeist to smuggling Nvidia chips into China to ?IPO everything and pray the American economy survives,? it?s never a dull episode with Brit, Dave, Jess, and Sam. Stay tuned for next week?s 2026 predictions? and drop yours in the comments.Chapters:05:50 Netflix vs Paramount - Who's going to win the deal and is this an Inverse AOL-Time Warner?16:56 Golden Globes nominees and Disney+'s Taylor Swift docuseries17:49 Bundling unbundling YouTube?s skinny bundle and sports21:29 Starlink on planes = fewer redeyes24:55 Zoox vs Waymo28:15 Space GPUs and the data centers in space33:57 The modern entrepreneurship skill: narrative flywheel41:38 Jess?s and The Information's win correcting CNBC's refuted chip story46:04 AI narrative in China vs US47:16 AI backlash: energy prices, water restraints, and kid's mental health52:06 The 101 Billboard Bubble Index57:17 Will the SpaceX, OpenAI, Anduril, or Anthropic IPOs save the economy?58:30 Sorkin?s book predicted the AI bubble?We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/RiKVJD_3ziMConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Bitcoin?s down, so the Lessins turned down the heat and pulled out their winter gear. The More or Less squad jumps from SF?s drone-powered crime-fighting memes (Daniel Lurie?s ?no drugs? moment) to how creator-content strategy now drives real deal flow. Jess says 2026 will split the AI tide (we unfortunately did have to touch on AI), with Meta?s missing enterprise story dragging its CapEx dreams, while AWS is suddenly courting founders again. From Apple?s design chief Alan Dye jumping to Meta to questioning whether OpenAI?s ?code red? was a decoy, the squad never misses when it comes to the latest thinking in Silicon Valley.

Buy Slow's Modern Etiquette book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G4HSKSY5

Chapters:

Chapters:01:10 Kudos to SF Mayor, Daniel Lurie!07:14 Doom scrolling on a Garmin watch12:34 Holiday gift guides: AI robots, Duolingo piano, Matic vac mop, etc14:30 The creator-VC playbook 21:27 Instagram RTO 5 days per week leadership reality check22:08 Alan Dye leaves Apple for Meta 26:09 Jess' 2026 prediction: The Big Tech divergence is coming27:46 Meta?s enterprise gap28:46 AWS outreach to Sam: Bedrock Nova and startup credits31:45 Sam Altman's code red memo -- is it a decoy?33:51 Gemini latency vs GPT why speed matters for Brit (Ad opp?)44:39 Is Aaron Levie for or against AI?46:40 Waymo's safety report and Dave's FSD usage51:21 Recapping the Slow holiday party + Offline's next58:28 Slow's Modern Etiquette Book plug (Link to purchase: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G4HSKSY5)

We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTubeConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Pre-Thanksgiving chatter from the Lessins? Surf Shack: Jess, Brit, Dave, and Sam pinball from holiday-card automation to trillion-dollar AI geopolitics. Brit trades Minted for Canva+GPT, Jess admits to maintaining a 600-row address spreadsheet, Sam unveils Slow?s Etiquette Book, and Dave still can?t believe we can?t pay in USDC. Don?t worry this year's Thanksgiving edition will live up to its hype, the crew gets into the real stuff too: Google?s TPU push vs. Nvidia?s moat, Meta reportedly buying billions in TPUs, whether Google can shave 10% off Nvidia?s revenue, and more.Chapters:06:45 The San Francisco consensus and Silicon Valley?s real innovation marketing

11:10 Elon Zuck and megaphone-powered distribution

14:30 Why interface distribution will decide AI winner

17:20 Memory isn?t real lock-in switching between ChatGPT and Gemini

21:40 OpenAI?s identity crisis: Apple-style computer vs Meta-style attention

26:30 Google complex vs OpenAI complex how the narrative flipped

29:10 Google TPUs vs Nvidia Meta?s rumored buying spree

33:20 AI infrastructure economics depreciation CapEx margins

36:00 Macro vs micro elections risk cycles

40:10 DOE?s Genesis Mission and where the analogy breaks

44:00 OpenAI's Jony Ive device timeline

48:30 Why distribution still beats novelty

53:15 Final takeaways: marketing distribution and business-model warsWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/7BbWHm3KODwConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Jessica kicks things off with Brit?s five-hour Brit-chella extravaganza?red latex, Light Balance blackout choreo, Ke$ha surprise, and more. The crew checks in on Jessica?s IG detox, TikTok's new "self control badges", ChatGPT launching group chats, Google Gemini taking the lead, and why ?just be Google? might be the winning AI brand strategy as AI melts into UX. Sam calls 2026 OpenAI?s make-or-break year and trashes their consumer subscription thesis; Jessica argues ad/commerce is the only viable lane. Markets stay frothy (Nvidia), hyperscaler debt risk rises, the White House preempts 50-state AI chaos, and Coinbase x Kalshi turns prediction markets into a spectator sport. Meme corner closes the loop and a possible Femme-etiquette school spinoff make its debut.

Chapters:

00:37 Intro and Brit-Chella Recap

10:33 Jessica?s Instagram detox check-in and what changed

15:59 TikTok?s anti screen-time badges

17:48 ChatGPT launches group chats; why Meta missed its chance

20:51 Google Gemini takes the lead in the AI race

23:37 OpenAI?s monetization problem; no one buys the consumer story

29:14 Just be Google ? higher brand credibility, revenue streams, and distribution

39:33 Breaking: Nvidia earnings are still growing

43:14 White House EO to preempt state AI regulation; why federal matters

48:06 Coinbase and Kalshi prediction markets, culture, and compliance

53:12 Meme Corner: RIP 6?7, hello 41

56:03 Make SF Dress Up Again: Femme-Etiquette School

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The squad is complete again! We get into AI wearables: rings, necklaces, even earrings, after Dave hints his stealth ring startup is almost ready. Waymo quietly rolls out SF?San Jose service (still no freeways), while private-jet owners email senators about the shutdown. The squad goes over Andy Rubin?s humanoid robotics launch, Sam?s backwards Panopticon sign, Apple?s Issey Miyake iPhone ?sock/pocket,? and that Slow?s etiquette school is now getting international interest. We wrap with Janitor AI?s romance boom, Sam building an AI kids-podcast pipeline with ElevenLabs, Brit wanting McConaughey to voice romance, Jess taking an Instagram detox, and more.

Chapters:

01:18 AI in interior design and AI slop; Why AI commerce still feels broken

04:59 Apple week iPhone Air vs Pro

08:49 Wearable AI flood Ray-Bans, rings, and other wearables

15:32 Jess deletes Instagram and maybe email

21:05 Multitasking vs focus

23:32 Andy Rubin?s new robotics company

27:15 SORON reveal and home deterrence roadmap

29:15 Military research to practical deterrent systems

30:29 Panopticon conference room and GDPR simplification

32:29 Waymo expansion and route quirks

35:35 Apple Issey Miyake iPhone pocket sock

38:40 Slow's Etiquette Finishing school goes global

44:50 The Lessin Family AI generated kids podcast

49:06 BBC scandal media bias and blowback

54:12 Lawfare the financialization of lawsuits

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4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

It?s Etiquette Finishing School Day at Slow Ventures, Sam dials in from the Four Seasons in a Brioni suit to recap Slow?s first-ever Etiquette School?covering caviar bumps, sommelier tips, and the ?low heart rate? approach to leadership. The crew argue that etiquette now matters in tech because trust is scarce and ?PMF-only? is an outdated YC-era story. Jess also unpacks details from Apple?s Gemini deal, Sequoia?s leadership shuffle, Anthropic?s latest numbers, and crypto?s meme-driven chaos. Watch till the end for free No Kings and Queens of Corbet protest tees from Sam.

Chapters:

02:33 Etiquette Day at Slow ? Sam?s recap from the Four Seasons

07:00 Why etiquette matters for founders in 2025

13:20 Apple x Google: Gemini to power Siri

17:24 Apple?s AI strategy: Restricting Spend on AI

20:04 LLMs vs search the new user behavior shift

27:40 Sequoia?s leadership handoff

36:44 Meme coin corner Jelly?s 400M rise and community-led products

47:55 Waymo swarms El Camino AI meets the real world

50:30 Sam's "No Kings and Queens" merch

We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/zv4VdtKpQQkConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

With Jess running The Information's massive WTF conference and Sam off-grid on a mountain, Brit and Dave hold down the fort with Stuart Landesberg, CEO of Seneca, a Slow- and Offline-backed startup building autonomous firefighting drones. Between deep tech inside jokes, Stuart coins pro-America tech and breaks down how Seneca?s five-drone strike teams deploy 500 lbs of foam across 30 square miles in under ten minutes?even at night. Wildfires now drain over a trillion dollars a year from the U.S. economy, and Seneca?s model of detect early, respond fast, outperforms retrofitting homes or relying on pilots. With demand rising from cities, utilities, and insurers protecting $5T in assets, Stuart?s focused on building long-term enterprise value, not chasing the AI hype cycle.

Join the Seneca team: https://seneca.com/careers/

Chapters:03:28 Stuart?s path to Seneca and the wildfire problem10:36 The true economic cost of wildfires12:10 Prevention vs. suppression; prescribed burns and costs16:19 Exponential fire growth; strike teams and early knockdowns19:46 Autonomy + sensors; choosing actions in real time20:45 Five drones, 30 square miles, sub-10-minute response22:20 Night ops: why autonomy wins when pilots can?t fly25:42 Regulators, HOAs, utilities: who?s pulling adoption forward27:40 Capital, AI hype, and choosing long-term partners31:32 Founder advice; unexpected demand from private stakeholders39:38 Culture: Stoicism, Amor Fati, learning from crashes

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Connect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The gang is back with a spicy opener: Brit calls out Dave for dismissing her ?AI-assisted? doc as work slop, while Sam argues lowbrow culture now imitates machines and highbrow culture resists them. We break down OpenAI?s early, hallucination-prone Atlas browser and debate whether it?s a real agent platform, just memory capture, or total $$$ burn. Sora hype is cooling as TPUs rise?with Jessica noting how The Information's TPU scoop even nudged NVIDIA to move faster. OpenAI?s compute could approach ~$45B/year at ~3 GW, forcing new financing models and tough research vs GTM trade-offs?Sam calls it Pascal?s Wager for Big Tech. We close on AWS outages, crypto leverage swings, and why ?swag is dead,? replaced by bespoke gifting as the new status move. Just another week of your favorite Technology podcast with the Morins and Lessins.Chapters:00:38 ? Gang is back: notes on last episode and Yasso bars01:20 ? Revisiting last week's ?AI Work Slop?: Brit vs. Dave 03:49 ? Culture vs. LLMs: highbrow resists, lowbrow imitates07:16 ? Bot etiquette: Bot joining Zoom calls and writing thank you letters12:16 ? OpenAI Atlas: early tests, hallucinations & agency potential17:29 ? Sora hype cools: the consumer AI novelty cycle19:47 ? The TPU plot twist: NVIDIA gets pushed to move faster22:40 ? $45B compute future: Pascal?s Wager for Big Tech29:05 ? AWS outages: one-offs vs systemic risk33:29 ? The X Game: Mr.Beast, ?manual slop,? and the screenshot era43:38 ? Swag is dead: bespoke gifting = new status flex53:43 ? Sports, socials & 2026 predictionsWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/VDYdIoHe4XAConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Jessica and Dave dive into the messy intersection of AI, culture, and the next wave of consumer tech. From the rise of ?AI slop? to whether founders should build apps just for themselves, they debate what survives the model wars and what gets eaten alive. Along the way: 2025 Silicon Valley weirdness, $1B AI comp with no products, GLP-1 memes, kids treating Fortnite like the new social network, and California?s crackdown on youth tech. It?s part therapy session, part future forecast?the only technology podcast that you should listen to before you head into the weekend.

Chapters:

00:40 Intro: The first ?Jave? episode

01:17 The Grove lore: Ground zero of social networks

03:19 What?s actually working in consumer AI?

12:26 The Information?s mobile app and engagement lift

14:51 Summarization as the killer consumer use case

16:17 The ?AI slop? problem in real work product

19:35 2025 Silicon Valley culture: dead internet, Sora slop, $1B comp

21:08 Refounding era (Handshake) and trendwatching

23:01 Startup to watch: BitRig and iPhone apps that build apps25:06 Why personalized apps

32:54 OpenAI Dev Day paranoia: Who gets eaten?

44:32 Parenting choices: Roblox/YouTube vs curated apps

58:36 Algorithmic novelty vs repetition comfort

01:02:47 OpenAI recalibrates adult content

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This week on More or Less: Jess drops The Information?s scoop on Oracle?s shaky GPU rental margins and how it spooked markets, while Sam insists AI workloads will soar, even if profits don?t. Dave crunches the numbers: an ?Apollo program every 10 months,? data centers now powering half of U.S. GDP, and capital getting sucked from factories into GPUs. On the culture beat: Google?s Zeitgeist goes no-swag chic, Taylor gets her own Google Easter egg, and Instagram ads become the prototype for AI?s ad future, Restoration Hardware jet memes, Waymo etiquette, Bari Weiss? $150M Free Press?meets?CBS glow-up, and more. Never a dull moment with the MOL squad.Chapters:01:17 ? Slow's Etiquette Finishing school on 11/5 (Apply here: https://luma.com/vmd7rz6j)04:02 ? Why everyone is replicating YC demo day17:15 ? AI bubble check + Sora usage uptick18:04 ? Oracle GPU rental margins scoop21:21 ? Quantum skepticism24:26 ? AI bubble propping up the U.S. GDP33:20 ? OpenAI renting GPUs; finance structures everywhere38:48 ? Where AI profits come from: ads, subs, commerce (nothing proven)42:31 ? Bari Weiss? Free Press sold for $150M; CBS Editor-in-Chief57:06 ? Yoni Rechtman?s ?self-promotion? stunt + Sam?s viral MrBeast post on XWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/p1bmrugU_6EConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

Never a dull moment with the More or Less squad: Jessica questions whether Sora is just a novelty or the start of an AI-native social economy, arguing OpenAI needs its own device to escape current platform limits. Brit calls it ?Vine meets MySpace,? highlighting its cameo mechanic as a creator tool that could outpace Meta?s AI video. Dave says Sora only needs to be entertaining and pitches OpenAI?s real graph play: embedding ChatGPT in group chats. Sam compares Sora to Truth Social, not Instagram, arguing power and narrative?not unit economics?drive the AI capex boom. The squad also touches on the ?dead internet theory,? the importance of context over data, and the limits of LLM understanding, with side notes on Swifties and always-on AI wearables.Chapters:04:59 What is Sora? The Vine meets MySpace take

06:40 Early Sora product gaps: identity, friending, moderation

07:37 Creator utility vs novelty: will people care

09:51 Sora is Truth Social, not Instagram; Sam is Tom

11:20 Power vs ownership: modern mercantilism in AI14:03 Loose on copyright, tight on moderation?the 2x2

16:36 Production value is a false god

17:59 What is AI slop? Dead internet theory primer

20:16 Idealized ideas: vibe-coded pitches fool no one

22:18 Does entertainment alone create an economy

26:05 If you ran OpenAI, what would you build

28:39 The obvious social graph: ChatGPT in your group chats

30:53 Why OpenAI needs a device: voice multitasking plus identity UX

34:31 Context is king; models know nothing about you

36:19 Don?t sell your data; keep your context moat

38:02 Sutton vs LLMs: prediction without understanding

43:22 AI capex as narrative: Chinese housing and ?99 fiber analogiesWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessYouTube: https://youtu.be/tDsh5VdoTpcConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

No Morins this week?just Jess and Sam, trading Gossip Girl ?dear listener? asides for a tour of tech?s new power map. From Meta?s in-store glasses push to Apple?s ?Find My? doubling as Gen Z?s stealth social network, the real story is how distribution and lock-in shape the future. Sam frames ?mercantilism 2.0,? where global trade routes of capital now run through Silicon Valley, Tel Aviv, and Riyadh, with figures like Elon Musk and Sam Altman acting as brokers of $10B+ flows.In true Sam fashion, the conversation highlights why LLMs aren?t true moats, pointing instead to the infrastructure layer (chips, power, data centers) and the UX layer (distribution, product polish). Nvidia?s securitized GPU deals illustrate how structured finance and alliances are reshaping competition.The takeaway: early-stage VC may finally be moving past hype, becoming sober?and therefore interesting?again.Chapters:02:02 ? Meta Ray-Bans: friction as onboarding strategy05:31 ? Mercantilism 2.0: Tech?s new trade routes07:56 ? Elon?s real genius: moving $10B+ into frontier tech09:27 ? Sam Altman as mega-capital trade-route broker12:40 ? Starlink V3 and the network-layer power shift16:08 ? Could Elon own planetary communications?18:35 ? Find My = stealth social network21:04 ? Strategy assets over DCF: power, data centers, chips23:41 ? LLMs aren?t the moat; moats shift lower/higher27:44 ? AI?s expense revives structured finance30:56 ? Nvidia as the East India Company of compute33:50 ? Will a handful of players control all the assets?39:57 ? Early-stage VC is sober (and exciting) again43:05 ? TikTok?s heat moved to AI: the attention shiftWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

The More or Less team go deep on the rumored TikTok deal: licensing the algorithm vs. owning influence, who actually controls the For You page, and why data localization misses the point. We debate A16Z?s evolving role, Sequoia?s must-have-access imperative, and what a ?TikTok US CEO? would really do.

Chapters:

00:48 - Intro + Ty Haney?s crypto-invisible loyalty rails

02:38 - ?Do the weather? for Silicon Valley

05:04 - Alcatraz as brand strategy (and why)

11:22 - TikTok deal setup: ownership shuffle vs. real control

20:05 - What does a TikTok US CEO actually do? ?Shell upon shell?

22:40 - ?I want a human to pick my feed? ? the curation comeback

24:21 - Slow?s Etiquette School: leveling the playing field

37:31 - Meta?s new glasses: HUD, wristband typing, live captions

44:33 - LLMs as the new youth battleground; customizing AI personalities

48:45 - Mid-cap IPOs, rate cuts, and why ?number didn?t go up?

53:14 - The case for exclusive, hyper-local print (and price it high)

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Apple ships hardware while everyone else ships AI press releases. The MOL quad debates whether Apple?s ?ignore the hype? strategy wins, why YC is full of ?made-to-chart? AI startups, what unique conviction really means for investors, and how meme warfare is becoming the new GTM.

Chapters:

01:02 ? ?Ozempic iPhone? and why ?thin? might be back

10:06 ? Market reaction: ?Not enough AI,? money flows to Oracle

16:49 ? YC protest: is relevance measured by outrage?

25:47 ? Creator-led startups as an investing edge

26:49 ? Khosla: bargain hunting is a poor AI bet

37:20 ? Why money feels unlimited again (FOMO returns)

40:29 ? Quiet shakeout: sub-$100M seed funds at risk

42:05 ? Crypto policy clarity as 2025 macro driver

50:11 ? Meme warfare: the next GTM playbook

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Another busy week in tech and your favorite quad are back! We go over: Google?s antitrust ?win,? AI M&A mania, Anthropic?s stay-private debate, why lawyers out-earn bankers now, and the barbell reality of internet businesses. We also unpack creator vs algorithm dynamics, the rise of Ozempic, and Sam?s wild ?AI petty-lawsuit bot? idea.

Chapters:02:07 ? OpenAI?s $300k copywriting hire ? AI not there yet

09:03 ? AI M&A deals are small relative to hype

10:55 ? Lawyers now out-earning bankers

12:40 ? Google?s antitrust ?loss? turned into a win

17:31 ? Government says ?AI will handle capitalism?

22:02 ? Debate: force unicorns public at $100B+

40:15 ? Creators must transcend algorithms, not rely on feeds

45:07 ? Only ~20M Americans really buy things ? own that niche

56:07 ? AI petty-lawsuit bots as the next ?big market?

57:22 ? AI is just compute wars, zero net value

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In this episode of More or Less, Brit Morin and Dave Morin sit down with legendary VC Tony Conrad (True Ventures) for a candid conversation on the state of venture capital, the real impact of AI, the death of social media, and why non-attribution and EQ matter more than ever.Chapters:

01:30 ? The Power (and Rarity) of Non-Attribution in Venture

04:00 ? Building Culture After the Dot-Com Crash

06:00 ? Why We Don?t Do This for the Money

08:30 ? EQ vs IQ: The Human Side of Venture Capital

11:00 ? The Wildfire Story: When VCs Show Up as Humans

16:50 ? The Best GPs & Firms: Inspiration from Legacy and Newcomers

22:30 ? Space Tech Is Real Venture Capital (Not Just AI)

28:10 ? Venture Is a Contact Sport: Lessons from Ron Conway

30:40 ? AI Hype: Is There Any Money Left for Startups?

40:00 ? Manipulation, Social Media, and the Rise of AEO

49:30 ? Building Brands in the Age of AI (and Why We Paused Consumer)

55:00 ? The Dangers of AI Hype and Overfunding

57:00 ? Why Contrarian Investing Can Wait?Focus on AI Now

1:04:00 ? Pop Culture Corner: Taylor Swift, Branding, and First Concerts

We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

This week on More or Less, the crew dives into the shifting narratives around AI (Finally everyone is getting on Sam's wavelength), the reality of LLM business models, and why infrastructure may not be the gold rush everyone thinks. We debate the hype cycles, the authenticity crisis in startup pitches, and the pitfalls of meme coins in the creator economy. Plus, is Burning Man over, and what can Taylor Swift teach us about brand-building in the internet age? As always, join Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin for an unfiltered, insider take on what?s really happening in Silicon Valley.Chapters:0:40 ? Intro and Silicon Valley Homecomings6:40 ? AI, SaaS, and the Changing Narrative12:10 ? The AI Moment: GPT-5 and the Plateau14:40 ? AI Slop and the Devaluation of Content19:40 ? OpenAI: From Hype to Sober Reality21:40 ? The Problem with Narrative-Driven Startups24:40 ? Marketing vs. Product: Who Really Wins?26:40 ? Lying, Manifesting, and Silicon Valley Ethics30:40 ? The Tower of Babel: Founders vs. VCs vs. AI36:40 ? Burning Man: Has It Peaked?39:40 ? Polyamory, Netflix Tropes, and the End of Media Originality43:40 ? Meme Coins, Crowdfunding, and Creator Economy Pitfalls54:40 ? Taylor Swift, Internet Fame, and Brand Lessons for StartupsWe?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

This week, the team dives into more meme capitalism, the AI hype cycle, and why San Francisco is still the epicenter of tech ambition (and some very odd real estate choices). We debate the real value behind Perplexity, the future of Chrome, and the myths founders tell themselves about trials and second chances. Plus: Taylor Swift, conspiracy AIs, and the ultimate contrarian takes for VCs and founders. Your usual well rounded and brutally honest weekly episode of More or Less.

Chapters:

00:00 ? Taylor Swift Should Buy Chrome?!

02:30 ? SF Comeback: The AI Pied Piper Effect

06:30 ? Meme Capitalism: Conference of the Future

14:00 ? AI Bubble Watch: Perplexity?s Valuation

17:30 ? Founder Redemption: Always Call Your VCs

20:00 ? The Dirty Secret of SaaS Trials

25:00 ? Chrome Antitrust Circus

29:00 ? AI Hardware: Bring Back the Flashlight

35:00 ? Taylor Swift: Peak Culture or Just Getting Started?

43:00 ? Conspiracy AI: The Next Meme Machine?

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This week on More or Less: Jessica Lessin, Dave Morin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin dive deep into the surprisingly busy summer of venture capital, the impact of AI on startups, and the changing rules for founders and investors. From Figma?s IPO and the rise of meme-driven investing to the challenge of diligence in an AI-saturated world, we tackle the uncomfortable truths and new dynamics shaping Silicon Valley today.

Chapters:

01:46 ? Dude Perfect vs. The Circus: The Internet Killed Local Art

05:46 ? The Creator Quality Bar Keeps Rising

07:46 ? Figma IPO: Did Wall Street Fleeced Them?

10:46 ? SaaS Is NOT Back & The Real IPO Signal

13:26 ? OpenAI: The Ultimate Meme Stock?

15:46 ? Seed Investing is Broken in the AI Era

20:46 ? Valley Mood: Exuberance and Angst

22:46 ? The Feudalism 2.0 Problem

39:46 ? The Uncomfortable Truth About Founder Age & Life Stage

45:46 ? Deep Work, Distraction, and the Future of Founders

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What happens when VCs are called the least sophisticated financiers, AI researchers get billion-dollar paydays, and outrage becomes the new marketing? This week on More or Less, the full crew breaks down the state of the AI talent wars, the power of meme-driven marketing, and whether hope (not financial literacy) still drives Silicon Valley.

Chapters:01:15 Jersey Shore, Laundry, and Marital Advice

05:08 Sydney Sweeney Outrage: Meme Marketing & Stock Surges

18:32 VCs Are the Least Sophisticated Financiers

22:20 AI Billionaires: Comp Bubbles & Power Laws

27:09 Will Billion-Dollar AI Talent Stay?

32:24 Social Graph Recruiting: The New Acqui-Hire

38:52 AI Comp Bubble: Lessons from the iOS Gold Rush

44:22 The Robot That Folds Clothes (and Why It?s a Billion-Dollar Job)

50:11 Outrage Marketing: Fad or Future?

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This week on More or Less, Sam Lessin, Brit Morin, and Dave Morin dive into the startup world and how today's founders need to bring fun back into the ecosystem, why most public policy around AI is just noise, whether Apple?s best move is to simply not care about AI hype, and the business model reckoning for OpenAI. Stay till the very end for a sneaky savage moment from Brit!

Chapters:

02:00 ? The Real Reason Early VC Worked: Fun

03:50 ? Authentic Fun vs. Fake Fun in Startups

05:40 ? AI Hacks, JSON, and the Joy of Building

09:45 ? AI Data, Human Correction, and Social Graphs

12:15 ? Tesla?s Trillion-Dollar Marketing Stunts

16:23 ? Google?s CapEx, Meta?s Moat, and AI Spending

18:15 ? OpenAI?s Extension: Business Model Reckoning

27:08 ? Apple?s AI Strategy: Does Not Caring Win?

36:20 ? AI Companions & The Threat to Social Platforms

39:15 ? Google?s Secret Weapon: Let OpenAI Take the Bullshit

47:15 ? Founders: Build What You Love, Or Regret It

53:30 ? Savage Brit & Monjaro Shots in NYC

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In this episode of More or Less, we dive into the shifting landscape of AI, attention, and business models. From the rise of ChatGPT as both productivity tool and entertainment, to the coming collision between commerce and AI-driven recommendations, the Morins and Lessins debate what?s hype, what?s real, and where the next big opportunities are for startups and VCs. Plus: the truth about local news, why coding is fun again, and a pop culture corner you won?t want to miss.

Chapters:

01:30 ? Wedding Stories & The Early Jackson Hole Days

03:00 ? Interviewing Mark Zuckerberg Goes Wrong

09:30 ? Building Audiences: Why Longer is Better (and Sponsors Are Lining Up)

14:00 ? Is AI for Productivity or Personal Use? The Real Data

16:00 ? Big Tech vs. Startups: Who Wins Consumer AI?

20:00 ? Can AI Save Local News? The Verticalization Debate

24:00 ? The Real Business of Local Data: City Councils and Real Estate

28:30 ? AI Business Models: Advertising, Affiliate, or Something New?

31:00 ? Is AI Stealing Attention from Instagram? The Frenetic Race

33:00 ? Commerce, Discovery, and the Death of Search

37:00 ? The Productivity Trap: Why Margins Go to Zero

39:00 ? How Are VCs Really Using AI? The Memory Game

40:30 ? AI as Entertainment: Coding vs. Netflix

43:00 ? The Future of Commerce: Push vs. Pull, Meta vs. OpenAI

46:00 ? Google, Gemini, and the Battle for Relevance

47:30 ? Late Night Coding: Why Claude Is Addictive

53:00 ? Pop Culture Corner: Lena Dunham, AI Bands, and Wimbledon

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We?re joined by a very special guest, Solana founder Anatoly Yakovenko for a wide-ranging conversation on crypto, tech, and what?s next. He breaks down the ?punks, hoodies, suits? cycle, why AI is just a product while crypto is a movement, and how stablecoins are quietly driving global USD adoption. He shares his $1T stablecoin prediction, explains the Solana phone?s goal to challenge app store monopolies, and argues that crypto?s future lies not in mass adoption, but in serving a small group of high-value users.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro & Anatoly?s Backstory

03:20 Crypto?s Evolution: Punks, Hoodies, and Suits

07:00 Bitcoin, Meme Investing, and the Value of Ideas

12:00 Meme Coins: Infrastructure and Insanity

17:45 Why Build a Crypto Phone? Platform Wars Explained

24:00 Talent, Incentives, and the Crypto Dilemma

30:00 Stablecoins, Dollar Hegemony, and Global Finance

39:50 The Punks Are the Bankers Now

41:10 The Internet, Extremes, and the Death of Truth

49:00 Engagement, Incentives, and the Future of Platforms

52:20 Are the Punks Too Rich to Care?

54:30 Wrap-Up: Bold Predictions and Where Crypto Goes Next

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This week, the gloves come off. We're diving into Meta's raid on OpenAI, asking if Mark Zuckerberg is the new Yankees of AI and who will be the 'Moneyball' underdog. Plus, a hot take on why usage-based pricing for AI is a flawed model, the challenge of creating 'God-tier' content that works everywhere, and why AI researchers are now earning more than soccer superstars. It's a packed episode you don't want to miss!

Chapters:

00:00 - Intro

01:18 - X vs. Threads: A Tale of Two Internets

04:38 - The ?God Content? Challenge: Can You Go Viral Everywhere?

11:15 - Google?s ?Last Gasp? to Save Publishers

14:23 - The Next Big Thing: Vanity Checks & Gold Delivery

20:15 - The Problem with AI Business Models

21:52 - Usage-Based Pricing is Generally Bad

26:45 - The Big News: Meta?s OpenAI Raid

29:45 - The AI Moneyball Era: Who are the Oakland A?s?

34:26 - What Will Meta?s New Super-Team Actually Build?

41:10 - The ?Baller? Leader Move OpenAI Didn?t Make

42:50 - AI Researchers Are The New Rockstars

44:45 - F1 Movie: The Best Film of the Year?

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Join the More or Less crew for a Summer Edition from the cabins! We dive into how AI is reshaping hiring, the future of resumes, the rise of agentic coding assistants, and why service businesses suck (unless you're Brit doing a fun side-hustle ). As always, we tackle the latest in tech news from The Information, from OpenAI's copyright battles to the next phase of Bumble and the realities of Tesla's Robotaxis.

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This week on More or Less, we dive into the escalating AI talent wars, Meta?s bold moves, and what the latest hires really mean for the future of AI innovation. The More or Less team break down why product execution is overtaking research wizardry, what's happening between OpenAI and Microsoft, and how AI is reshaping inbound for all markets.We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

This week on More or Less: Is Austin out-innovating San Francisco in self-driving tech? Why Apple?s WWDC liquid glass announcement a bigger deal than you think. The real story behind Meta?s $14B Scale AI move, and the new economics of AI talent. Plus, what?s next for startup investing in an era where talent trumps business models. We?re also on ?X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspodInstagram: https://instagram.com/moreorlessSpotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspodConnect with us here:1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit