The Experiment is coming to an end. For our final episode, we contemplate our strange, sometimes beautiful, often frustrating country. We go back to some of the people we met and fell in love with while making the show, and ask them how their version of the American experiment is going.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Alyssa Edes, Gabrielle Berbey, Julia Longoria, and Tracie Hunt, with editing by Michael May and Emily Botein. Fact-check by Sam Fentress. Sound design by David Herman. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by Water Feature (?Richard III (Duke of Gloucester)?), Naran Ratan (?Forever time Journeys?), H Hunt (?C U Soon?), Parish Council (?Heatherside Stores? and ?Durdle Door?), and Ob (?Ghyll?), provided by Tasty Morsels.

In The Atlantic?s new series How To Start Over, Olga Khazan takes listeners on a journey of reinvention. How To Start Over is your guide to navigating life?s gray areas, whether knowing it?s time to make a career switch, repairing strained family ties, or forging new connections in a post-pandemic world.  

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

Deep in Yellowstone National Park, there?s a glitch in the U.S. Constitution where, technically, you could get away with murder. Lawmakers didn?t seem interested in fixing the problem until Mike Belderrain stumbled into the ?Zone of Death? while hunting the biggest elk of his life. In a world with so many preventable deaths, The Experiment documents one attempt to avert disaster.

This episode of The Experiment originally ran on February 4, 2021.

A transcript of this episode is available.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast or write to us at [email protected]. 

This episode was produced by Julia Longoria and Alvin Melathe, with editing by Katherine Wells and sound design by David Herman.

Music by Water Feature (?In a Semicircle or a Half-Moon?), R McCarthy (?Big Game,? ?She?s a Gift Giver, She?s a Giver of Gifts,? and ?Melodi 2?), Ob (?Ell? and ?Ere?), Parish Council (?Mopping?), H Hunt (?11e?), Column (?Quiet Song?), and Bwengo (?Première Mosrel?); catalog by Tasty Morsels. Additional audio from Montana State University Library?s Acoustic Atlas, the National Park Service?s Sound Library, C. J. Box, CNBC, C-SPAN, Vox, NPR?s All Things Considered, Idaho News 6, @ItsKeyes, and C-SPAN?s Book TV.

In June 1964, at the height of the civil-rights movement, the Ku Klux Klan burned a Black Methodist church to the ground in the town of Philadelphia, Mississippi, and murdered three civil-rights workers in cold blood. This crime became one of the most notorious of its era, shocking the nation on the eve of the passage of the Civil Rights Act and later inspiring a Hollywood blockbuster: Mississippi Burning.

But when the reporter Ko Bragg started questioning how this history is being preserved in Philadelphia, she was confronted with a town that would much rather forget its violent past. Bragg finds a few Black residents taking it upon themselves to keep the story of this crime alive, and she asks where the burden of safeguarding history should lie. 

A transcript of this episode is available.

Further reading: ?Who Will Remember the Mississippi Murders??

 Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode of The Experiment was produced by Gabrielle Berbey, with help from Salman Ahad Khan. Editing by Michael May and Julia Longoria. Reporting by Ko Bragg. Fact-check by Naomi Sharp. Sound design by Hannis Brown with additional engineering by Jennifer Munson. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by Naran Ratan (?East of Somewhere Else?) provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Hannis Brown. Additional audio from Iowa PBS, HelmerReenberg, AP Archive, MGM, CBS Evening News, NBC News, C-SPAN.

At 19 years old, Aséna Tahir Izgil feels wise beyond her years. She is Uyghur, an ethnic minority persecuted in China, and few of her people have escaped to bear witness. After narrowly securing refuge in the United States, Aséna?s now tasked with adjusting to life in a new country and fitting in with her teenage peers. 

This week on The Experiment, Aséna shares her family?s story of fleeing to the U.S., navigating newfound freedom, and raising her baby brother away from the shadows of a genocide. 

This episode?s guests include Aséna Tahir Izgil and her father, Tahir Hamut Izgil, a Uyghur poet and author.

This episode of The Experiment originally ran on August 19, 2021.

A transcript of this episode is available.

Further reading: ?One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps,? ?Saving Uighur Culture From Genocide,? ??I Never Thought China Could Ever Be This Dark,?? ?China?s Xinjiang Policy: Less About Births, More About Control?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Julia Longoria, with help from Gabrielle Berbey and editing by Katherine Wells and Emily Botein. Fact-check by Yvonne Rolzhausen. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Translations by Joshua L. Freeman.

Music by Keyboard (?Over the Moon,? ?Mu,? ?Water Decanter,? and ?World View?), Laundry (?Lawn Feeling?), Water Feature (?Richard III (Duke of Gloucester)? and ?Ancient Morsel?), Parish Council (?New Apt.?), and H Hunt (?C U Soon), provided by Tasty Morsels.

A translation of Tahir Hamut Izgil?s poem ?Aséna? is presented below. 

Aséna

By Tahir Hamut Izgil

Translation by Joshua L. Freeman

A piece of my flesh

torn away.

A piece of my bone

broken off.

A piece of my soul

remade.

A piece of my thought

set free.

In her thin hands

the lines of time grow long.

In her black eyes

float the truths of stone tablets.

Round her slender neck

a dusky hair lies knotted.

On her dark skin

the map of fruit is drawn.

She

is a raindrop on my cheek, translucent

as the future I can?t see.

She

is a knot that need not to be untied

like the formula my blood traced from the sky,

an omen trickling from history.

She

kisses the stone on my grave

that holds down my corpse

and entrusts me to it.

She

is a luckless spell

who made me a creator

and carried on my creation.

She is my daughter.

Almost 30 years ago, a fed-up Manhattan-family-court judge named Judith Sheindlin was sitting in her chambers when she got a call from a couple of television producers. They pitched her the idea for a TV show with Judy at its center. 

The result was Judge Judy, one of the most popular and influential television series ever made. Over its decades-long run, it beat out The Oprah Winfrey Show in ratings, led to the explosion of court TV, and influenced how large swaths of Americans think about crime and justice. 

The Experiment?s Peter Bresnan has been watching Judge Judy with his mom ever since he was a kid. But recently, he began to wonder how the show managed to become such a force in American culture, and what impact it?s had on the thousands of litigants who stood before Judy?s TV bench. What he found was a strange story about what happens when the line between law and entertainment starts to blur. 

A transcript of this episode is available.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode of The Experiment was produced by Peter Bresnan with help from Salman Ahad Khan. Editing by Jenny Lawton, Julia Longoria, Emily Botein, and Michael May. Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by Joe Plourde with additional engineering by Jen Munson. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by Naran Ratan (?East of Somewhere Else?), Ob (?Wold?), R McCarthy (?Big Game? and ?Contemplation at Lon Lon?), Parish Council (?P Lachaise,? ?Walled Garden 1,? and ?New Apt.?), and Column (?A Year in Your Garden? and ?Sensuela?) provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Alex Overington. Additional audio from Judge Judy, CBS News, The People's Court, NBC4 News, ABC News, AP Archive, and The Roseanne Show.

The Experiment introduces WNYC colleague Nancy Solomon's new podcast: Dead End: A New Jersey Political Murder Mystery

New Jersey politics is not for the faint of heart. But the brutal killing of John and Joyce Sheridan, a prominent couple with personal ties to three governors, shocks even the most cynical operatives. The mystery surrounding the crime sends their son on a quest for truth. Dead End is a story of crime and corruption at the highest levels of society in the Garden State.

There?s a common story about abortion in this country, that people have only two options to intentionally end a pregnancy: the clinic or the coat hanger. They can choose the safe route that?s protected by Roe v. Wade?a doctor in a legal clinic?or, if Roe is overturned, endure a dangerous back-alley abortion, symbolized by the coat hanger. But a close look at the history of abortion in this country shows that there?s much more to this story. As the Supreme Court prepares to hear a case that could overturn Roe v Wade in June, activists are once again preparing to take abortion into their own hands.

Reporter Jessica Bruder explores the abortion underground to learn about the movement?s origins, and reveals how activists today are mobilizing around effective and medically safe abortion methods that can be done at home. 

A transcript of this episode is available.

Further reading: ?A Covert Network of Activists Is Preparing for the End of Roe?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Alyssa Edes, with help from Salman Ahad Khan. Editing by Michael May and Julia Longoria. Reporting by Jessica Bruder. Fact-check by Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by Joe Plourde. Engineering by Jen Munson. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by R McCarthy (?Fine?), Ob (?Ere?), Parish Council (?Leaving the TV on at Night? and ?Mopping?), Laurie Bird (?Detail Wash? and ?Jussa Trip?), Safa Park (?Loose Yams?), Ceefax (?Dissolving Skull?), and Column (??The Art of Fun? (Raj)?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Joe Plourde. Additional audio from CBS, Hope 2020 (Clip 1 and Clip 2), NBC News (Clip 1 and Clip 2), KCRG, WLKY, and KXAN.

The national-park system has been touted as ?America?s best idea.? David Treuer, an Ojibwe historian and the author of The Heartbeat of Wounded Knee: Native America From 1890 to the Present, says we can make that idea even better?by giving national parks back to Native Americans.

This episode of The Experiment originally ran on April 15, 2021.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte and Gabrielle Berbey, with editing by Matt Collette and Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Jack Segelstein. Sound design by David Herman. Additional engineering by Joe Plourde. 

Music by Laundry (?Films?), Parish Council (?Socks Before Trousers? and ?Heatherside Stores?), h hunt (?11e? and ?Journeys?), and naran ratan (?Trees etc.?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by John Charles Schroeder and Ross Taggart Garren (?Mournful Blues?) and Ken Anderson and Rebecca Ruth Hall (?Calliope - Underscore?). Additional audio from National Geographic, WNYC, PBS, and C-SPAN.

From the time she was a little girl, Marilyn Vann knew she was Black and she was Cherokee. But when she applied for citizenship in the Cherokee Nation as an adult, she was denied. What followed was a journey into a dark part of Cherokee history that not many people know about and even fewer understand: Vann and her family are descended from people who were enslaved by the Cherokee Nation. They were freed after the Civil War, but that wasn?t the end of their struggle. In 1866, the Cherokee Nation made a promise?a promise of citizenship for these ?freedmen? and their descendants. But in the years that followed, that promise would be at the center of a battle between civil rights and sovereignty. 

Related Viewing: Will Congress Fulfill a 184-Year-Old Promise?

A transcript of this episode will soon be made available. Please check back. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte, with help from Gabrielle Berbey and Alyssa Edes. Editing by Jenny Lawton and Julia Longoria. Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by Joe Plourde with additional engineering by Jen Munson. Transcription by Caleb Codding. Special thanks to Rebecca Nagle, Bryan Pollard, Sterling Cosper, and Gregory Smithers.

Music by Parish Council (?Marmalade Day?), Keyboard (?Freedom of Movement,? ?Over the Moon,? ?Ojima,? ?Being Darrell,? and ?Only One?), and Water Feature (?Richard III (Duke of Gloucester?). Additional music by Alexander Overington. Additional audio from Bloomberg, Global News, and Fox News. 

The fantasy writer Elsa Sjunneson has been haunted by Helen Keller for nearly her entire life. Elsa is Deafblind, and growing up, she couldn?t escape the constant comparisons. Then, a year ago, an online conspiracy theory claiming that Keller was a fraud exploded on TikTok, and suddenly, Sjunneson found herself drawing her sword and jumping to Keller?s defense, setting off a chain of events that would bring her closer to the disability icon than she?d ever dreamed she would be. For more than a year, Sjunneson, Lulu Miller, and the Radiolab team dug through primary sources, talked with experts, even visited Keller?s birthplace, Ivy Green, and discovered that the real story of Helen Keller is far more complicated, mysterious, and confounding than the simple myth of a young deaf-blind girl rescued by her teacher.

This story originally ran on Radiolab.

Further reading: ?The Three Things Helen Keller Wished She Could See,? ?Helen Keller?s Depression-Era Business Advice: ?Put Your Husband in the Kitchen??

A transcript of this episode is available in text and braille-ready format. An ASL translation of the episode can be viewed here.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

James Sulzer has always loved building things. As a rehabilitation engineer, he spent years creating devices that he hoped would help patients recover from serious brain trauma such as strokes. And he believed strongly in the potential of rehab technology?that with the right robot, he could relieve a whole array of brain injuries. 

But then, one spring day in 2020, there was a horrible accident. And suddenly James had to apply everything he knew about science and rehabilitation to help fix his own family. The Atlantic senior editor Daniel Engber spent months talking to James, following him as he used his scientific knowledge to try to find meaning in tragedy. 

Further reading: ?A Peer-Reviewed Portrait of Suffering?

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Apply for The Experiment?s summer internship. Applications will be accepted through March 25, 2022.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by ?Peter Bresnan with help from Julia Longoria and Alyssa Edes. Editing by Emily Botein. Reporting by Daniel Engber.

Fact-check by Yvonne Rolzhausen. Sound design by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

As Putin invaded Ukraine last month, the Atlantic writer Franklin Foer found the Russian leader?s justification for violence uncanny. Putin referred to the ?Nazification? of Ukraine?a distortion of history at best. But Franklin was told a similar story his whole life from his grandmother. This week, The Experiment tells the story of the Holocaust survivor Ethel Kaplan, and traces Franklin Foer?s own journey?how he once came to believe Putin?s myth, and his journey to Ukraine to debunk it.

Further reading: ?It?s Not ?The? Ukraine,? I Want You to Know We?re Still Here: A Post-Holocaust Memoir.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

If you or someone you know is considering suicide or self-harm, please get help. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 800-273-8255. And if you?re outside the U.S., you can visit findahelpline.com to find resources for your country.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Salman Ahad Khan and Julia Longoria, with editing by Emily Botein. Reporting by Franklin Foer and Esther Foer. Fact-check by Sam Fentress. Sound design by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding. Special thanks to Andy Lanset and Roberto De La Noval.

The Experiment host Julia Longoria has always had a special relationship with Vicks Vaporub?the scent transports her right back to childhood, to days in bed with the flu at her grandmother?s house in South Florida. Julia and her cousins all knew not to tell grandma when they were sick, or they?d risk being slathered with ?Vickicito.?

Julia never had a reason to wonder why grandma loved Vicks so much, but this week?s episode reveals that grandma?s love for the product is deeper than Julia imagined. And while investigating grandma?s (and the world?s) Vicks obsession, Julia is pulled into her family?s past, back to Cuba, before the revolution.

This story originally aired on Only Human, a show about health that we all can relate to. Because every body has a story.

 Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

Who are the people who make modern-day SPAM possible? You can find clues on the streets of downtown Austin, Minnesota. On weekend nights, across the street from the SPAM Museum, a Latin dance club fills with Spanish-speaking patrons. A taco truck is parked outside the Austin Labor Center. There?s a Sudanese market and an Asian food store. A new generation of workers has flooded the town for the chance to package some of America?s most iconic meat, and for many the town is a model of the American dream. But soon a mysterious disease spreads through the slaughterhouse where SPAM is made, complicating this idyllic picture of new immigrants in the American heartland. 

A transcript of this episode is available.

This episode is the last in a new three-part miniseries from The Experiment??SPAM: How the American Dream Got Canned.?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Julia Longoria. Editing by Kelly Prime, Emily Botein, and Katherine Wells, with help from Scott Stossel. Special thanks to Alina Kulman. 

Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by David Herman with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Julia Longoria. Editing by Kelly Prime, Emily Botein, and Katherine Wells, with help from Scott Stossel. Special thanks to Alina Kulman. 

Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by David Herman with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by Parish Council (?If of As,? ?Socks Before Trousers,? ?St. Peter Port/Wiltshire/Cooking Leeks,? and ?Mopping?), Keyboard (?Freedom of Movement?), Column (?Quiet Song? and ?Sensuela?), Water Feature (?Richard III (Duke of Gloucester)?), Laurie Bird (?Detail Wash?), and H Hunt (?Journeys?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Alexander Overington. Additional audio from United Newsreel, PBS, and NBC.

SPAM is at the center of one of the longest and most contentious labor battles in U.S. history. In 1985, workers at the Hormel Foods plant in Austin, Minnesota, went on strike, demanding better working conditions and stable wages. Generations of meatpackers had worked at the plant, some for most of their lives?and that gruesome, difficult work afforded them a sustainable, middle-class life. So when that way of life was threatened, they fought back. SPAM boycotts spread to cities and towns around the world. The strike went on for almost two years, pit neighbor against neighbor, and turned violent; the National Guard was called in to protect those who crossed the picket line. In the end, the strike is a Rorschach test: either a lesson in what is possible when workers unite, or a cautionary tale about biting the SPAM that feeds. 

This episode is the second in a new three-part miniseries from The Experiment??SPAM: How the American Dream Got Canned.?

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Julia Longoria. Editing by Kelly Prime, Emily Botein, and Katherine Wells with help from Jenny Lawton and Scott Stossel. Fact-check by Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by David Herman with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding. Special thanks to Peter Rachleff and Philip Dawkins.

Music by R Mccarthy (?Maria, Just,? ?Big Game,? ?Fine,? and ?Melodi 2?), Parish Council (?Museum Weather? and ?Marmalade Day?), Column (??THE ART OF FUN? (Raj)?), and Keyboard (?Ojima,? ?Only One,? and ?World View?); provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Alexander Overington. Additional audio from CBS, CNBC (Clip 1, Clip 2, and Clip 3), NBC, Al Jazeera, Reagan Foundation, WCCO-TV, PBS (Clip 1, Clip 2, Clip 3, Clip 4, Clip 5, Clip 6, Clip 7, and Clip 8), and New Jersey Network. 

During World War II, wherever American troops spread democracy, they left the canned meat known as SPAM in its wake. When American GIs landed overseas, they often tossed cans of SPAM out of trucks to the hungry people they sought to liberate. That?s how producer Gabrielle Berbey?s grandfather first came to know and love SPAM as a kid in the Philippines. But 80 years later, SPAM no longer feels American. It is now a staple Filipino food: a  beloved emblem of Filipino identity. Gabrielle sets out on a journey to understand how SPAM made its way into the hearts of generations of Pacific Islanders, and ends up opening a SPAM can of worms.

This episode is the first in a new three-part miniseries from The Experiment??SPAM: How the American Dream Got Canned.?

A transcript of this episode is available.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Julia Longoria with help from Peter Bresnan and Alina Kulman. Editing by Kelly Prime, with help from Emily Botein, Jenny Lawton, Scott Stossel, and Katherine Wells. Fact-check by William Brennan and Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by David Herman with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Julia Longoria with help from Peter Bresnan and Alina Kulman. Editing by Kelly Prime, with help from Emily Botein, Jenny Lawton, Scott Stossel, and Katherine Wells. Fact-check by William Brennan and Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by David Herman with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by Parish Council (?A Painting of a Frog? and ?The Grey Around It?), Keyboard (?More Shingles?), Ob (?Mog?), and Laurie Bird (?Jussa Trip?) provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Alexander Overington. Additional audio from U.S. National Archives, Paramount News, gilbertoy69, PublicDomainFootage. Special thanks to Noella Levy and Craig Santos Perez.

America, shall I compare thee to a can of SPAM? Thou art more decadent, salty and sweet, container of even greater mystery. In this three-part series, some of the meatiest questions the United States faces about how we work for the food we eat play out in the story of special processed American meat. The Experiment embarks on a remarkable journey to the heart of SPAM?from remote Philippine provinces, where American GIs disseminated the American dream through cans of SPAM, to Austin, Minnesota, SPAMtown U.S.A., where SPAM employed generations of meatpackers, and tore the town apart. SPAM inspired aspirations and opened wounds in the American worker?s psyche that we still yearn for and ache from today. 

SPAM: How the American Dream Got Canned. New weekly episodes start February 3.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

Rebecca Shrader had always thought that abortion was morally wrong. As a devout Baptist Christian, she volunteered at a clinic designed to discourage women from getting abortions. And when she got pregnant for the first time, she knew she would carry the baby to term, no matter what. 

But when Rebecca?s pregnancy didn?t go as planned, she started to question everything she had always believed about abortions, and about the people who choose to have them.

This episode of The Experiment was reported by Emma Green in collaboration with This American Life, and originally aired as a part of This American Life?s episode ?But I Did Everything Right.? 

Further reading: ?The Dishonesty of the Abortion Debate,? ?What Roe Could Take Down With It,? ?The Court Invites an Era of Constitutional Chaos?

A transcript of this episode is available.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Miki Meek and Diane Wu with additional production by Peter Bresnan and Julia Longoria, and help from Alina Kulman. Reporting by Emma Green. Editing by Laura Starcheski. Fact-check by Jessica Suriano. Special thanks to Emily Patel and Aimee Baron. 

Sound design by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

On January 6, 2021, William J. Walker was head of the D.C. National Guard. He had buses full of guardsmen in riot gear ready to deploy in case Donald Trump?s ?Stop the Steal? rally turned dangerous. But when rioters violently stormed the Capitol building, the Guard was nowhere to be found. Walker says he was forced to wait for three hours before his superiors allowed him to send in his troops. ?My soldiers were asking me, ?Sir, what the hell is going on??? Walker says. ??Are they watching the news? Are they watching what?s going on at the Capitol?? And I had no answer. I don?t recall ever being in that position, where I did not have an answer for my soldiers.?

Now, almost one year later, Walker is the sergeant-at-arms of the U.S. House of Representatives?the first Black man to ever hold that office. The Experiment?s correspondent Tracie Hunte and producer Peter Bresnan visit Walker in his new office at the Capitol to ask him about what happened on January 6, and what he?s doing to make sure it never happens again.

Further reading: ?The Man Who Could Have Stopped an Insurrection,? ?Trump?s Next Coup Has Already Begun,? ?Are We Doomed?,? and ?What the GOP Does to Its Own Dissenters?

A transcript of this episode is available.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte and Peter Bresnan with help from Alina Kulman. Editing by Emily Botein and Jenny Lawton with help from Julia Longoria. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by Keyboard (?Over the Moon,? ?Water Decanter,? ?Mu,? and ?Small Island?), Arabian Prince in a UK World (?The Feeling of Being on a Diet?), Water Feature (?Ancient Morsel?), Laundry (?Laundry?), and Column (?Aerolove?) provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional audio from C-SPAN, The Untouchables, the FBI, and Forbes.

This week, The Experiment takes a look at the charge that sent Anissa Jordan to prison for a crime she didn?t even know had been committed. We consider how the felony-murder rule disproportionately punishes youth of color and women, and the debate over whether the same rule is key to holding police officers responsible in the killings of civilians.

This episode of The Experiment originally ran on April 29, 2021.

A transcript of this episode is available.

Further reading: ?What Makes a Murderer?? 

This episode is part of  The Atlantic?s project ?The Cycle,? which is supported by a grant from the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation?s Safety and Justice Challenge.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Alvin Melathe and Julia Longoria, with editing by Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by David Herman. Special thanks to Adam Harris and John Swansburg. 

Music by Water Feature (?With Flowers,? ?Richard III (Duke of Gloucester),? and ?A Paradise?), Keyboard (?Being There? and ?My Atelier?), H Hunt (?C U Soon? and ?Having a Bath?), and R McCarthy (?Home/Home?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Bruce Wiley McKinnon Jr. (?Are You a Freak?) and Tyler O. Sterrett and Jason Trotta (?The Hamlet?). Additional audio from KQED and MPR News.

As the Vietnam War dragged on, the U.S. military began desperately searching for any vulnerability in its North Vietnamese enemy. In 1964, it found one: an old Vietnamese folktale about a ghost, eternal damnation, and fear?a myth that the U.S. could weaponize. And so, armed with tape recorders and microphones, American forces set out to win the war by bringing a ghost story to life. Today, The Experiment examines those efforts and the ghosts that still haunt us.

This story originally aired on ?Mixtape,? a special series from Radiolab about how the cassette tape allowed us to record, reshuffle, and reimagine our lives.

A transcript of this episode is available.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

Hollywood has a long history of ?passing movies??films in which Black characters pass for white?usually starring white actors. Even as these films have attempted to depict the devastating effect of racism in America, they have trafficked in tired tropes about Blackness. But a new movie from actor-writer-director Rebecca Hall takes the problematic conventions of this uniquely American genre and turns them on their head. Hall tells the story of how her movie came to life, and how making the film helped her grapple with her own family?s secrets around race and identity.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Further reading: ?Netflix?s ?Passing? Is an Unusually Gentle Movie About a Brutal Subject?

Apply for The Experiment?s spring internship. Applications will be accepted through November 29, 2021.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte and Peter Bresnan with help from Alina Kulman. Editing by Emily Botein, Julia Longoria, and Jenny Lawton. Special thanks to B.A. Parker. Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by David Herman with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Was anybody willing to be a spiritual adviser to a Muslim man on death row? That?s the question that went out by email to a local group of interfaith leaders in Indiana. Nobody answered. 

After a week without responses, the management professor Yusuf Ahmed Nur stepped forward. A Somali immigrant who volunteered at his local mosque, Nur would counsel Orlando Hall in the weeks leading up to his execution. But Nur didn?t expect he?d end up standing beside Hall in the execution chamber as he was put to death.

?That?s when it hit me,? Nur says. ?You feel like you?re complicit, that you are cooperating with the system. They assign you a role to play in this execution.?

This week on The Experiment: One man finds himself at the center of our legal system, and witnesses what gets sacrificed in the pursuit of justice.

This episode of The Experiment originally ran on March 18, 2021.

Further reading: ?Trump Is Putting the Machinery of Death Into Overdrive?

A transcript of this episode is available.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Alvin Melathe, Gabrielle Berbey, and Julia Longoria, with editing by Matt Collette and Katherine Wells. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman. Special thanks to Katie Bishop and Najib Aminy.

Music by water feature (?double blessing ii?), Keyboard (?Being There,? ?More Shingles,? ?My Atelier,? ?Small Island?), and Parish Council (?Heatherside Stores?) provided by Tasty Morsels.

Just as the Navajo researcher Rene Begay started to fall in love with the field of genetics, she learned that the Navajo Nation had banned all genetic testing on tribal land. Now she is struggling to figure out what the future of genetics might look like, and whether the Navajo and other Indigenous communities should be a part of it. 

Further reading: ?Race, Genetics, and Scientific Freedom,? ?Return the National Parks to the Tribes,? ???The Search for America?s Atlantis,? ?Elizabeth Warren?s DNA Is Not Her Identity?

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Peter Bresnan and Julia Longoria, with help from Tracie Hunte and Alina Kulman. Editing by Jenny Lawton and Emily Botein. Fact-check by Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding. Special thanks to Pauly Denetclaw. 

Music by Keyboard (?Ojima,? ?Staying In,? and ?Being There?), Naran Ratan (?Jam for Bwengo?), Parish Council (?It?s Purple, Not Blue,? ?Durdle Door,? and ?Scented Letters?), R McCarthy (?Contemplation at Lon Lon?), and Column (????? ?Scan??), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional audio from the National Institutes of Health?s All of Us Research Program.

Last week, Justice Sonia Sotomayor announced that the Supreme Court had broken with tradition and changed its rules for oral argument. This came after a study revealed that women are disproportionately interrupted by men in the highest court in America. This week, we?re re-airing a More Perfect episode about the Northwestern University research that inspired the Court?s changes.

This story originally aired on More Perfect, a Radiolab spin-off about the Supreme Court.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

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The satire site The Babylon Bee, a conservative Christian answer to The Onion, stirred controversy when some readers mistook its headlines for misinformation. In this episode, The Atlantic?s religion reporter Emma Green sits down with the editor in chief, Kyle Mann, to talk about where he draws the line between making a joke and doing harm, and to understand what humor can reveal about American politics.

Further reading: ?Who Would Jesus Mock??

A transcript of this episode is available.

 Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Julia Longoria, with editing by Emily Botein and Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Ashley C. Ford was just a baby when her father was sentenced to 30 years behind bars. Prison phone calls?a $1.4 billion industry in the United States?were often prohibitively expensive for her family, so Ford maintained a fragmentary relationship with him through handwritten letters and short visits, while her loved ones tried to shield her from her father?s past. With limited contact and unanswered questions, Ford filled in the blanks with fantasies of her father as the perfect man. This week on The Experiment, the Atlantic staff writer Clint Smith speaks with Ford about what children lose when a parent is in prison?and what happened when she discovered the truth of her father?s crime.

Further reading: ?The Lines of Connection,? ?The Financial Toll of Mass Incarceration on American Families,? ?Restoring Pell Grants?And Possibilities?for Prisoners?

A transcript of this is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Peter Bresnan, with reporting by Clint Smith. Editing by Katherine Wells, Jenny Lawton, and Julia Longoria. Fact-check by Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcription by Caleb Codding. 

Music by Nelson Bandela (?Auddi Sun 06 17952 5n4?), Ob (?Ere?), H Hunt (?C U Soon? and ?11e?), Water Feature (?Double Blessing I?), Laundry (?Films?), and Keyboard (?My Atelier? and ?More Shingles?), provided by Tasty Morsels and Nelson Nance. Additional audio from the Connecticut Network and the Connecticut General Assembly Judiciary Committee.

This week, President Joe Biden rolled out a large-scale federal mandate requiring COVID-19 vaccinations for two-thirds of the American workforce, impacting more than 100 million people across the public and private sectors. Some lawmakers have already called the mandate unconstitutional, and Arizona is the first state to sue to block it. This week on The Experiment: As the struggle between individual liberty and public safety rages, we revisit the story of the first Supreme Court battle over vaccines, waged more than 100 years ago.

This episode of The Experiment originally ran on March 25, 2021.

A transcript of this episode is available.

Further reading: ?Why Biden Bet It All on Mandates,? ?Not Getting Vaccinated to Own Your Fellow Libs,? ??Post-Vax COVID? Is a New Disease?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Julia Longoria and Gabrielle Berbey, with editing by Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by David Herman. Transcript by Caleb Codding.

Music by Ob (?Wold?), Parish Council (?Leaving the TV on at Night,? ?Museum Weather,? ?P Lachaise?), Alecs Pierce (?Harbour Music, Parts I & II?), Laundry (?Lawn Feeling?), water feature (?richard iii (duke of gloucester)?), Keyboard (?Mu?), and naran ratan (?Forevertime Journeys?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Dieterich Buxtehude (?Prelude and Fugue in D Major?), Johannes Brahms (?Quintet for Clarinet, Two Violins, Viola, and Cello in B Minor?), and Andrew Eric Halford and Aidan Mark Laverty (?Edge of a Dream?). 

The Atlantic staff writer Hannah Giorgis grew up in the ?90s, watching dozens of Black characters on TV. Living Single, Sister, Sister, Moesha, and Smart Guy were just a few of the shows led by Black casts. But at some point in the 2000s, those story lines and some of the Black writers behind them seemed to disappear. In a cover story for The Atlantic, Giorgis traces the cyclical, uneven history of Black representation on television.

One writer whose career encompasses much of that history is Susan Fales-Hill. She got her start as an apprentice on The Cosby Show, wrote for A Different World, and now is an executive producer of BET?s Twenties. This week on The Experiment, Fales-Hill and Giorgis talk about  how power dynamics behind the scenes have shaped what we watch, what we talk about, and how we understand ourselves.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Further reading: ?Most Hollywood Writers? Rooms Look Nothing Like America?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Meg Cramer. Reporting by Hannah Giorgis. Editing by Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Jack Segelstein. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Transcript by Caleb Codding.  

On September 11, 2001, Bobby McIlvaine was killed, along with nearly 3,000 other Americans. In the 20 years since, his parents and brother have searched for ways to live through, and with, their grief.

The writer Jennifer Senior?s brother was Bobby?s roommate when he died, and in the cover story for The Atlantic?s September issue, she visited with each member of the family to understand their personal journey through the aftermath of national tragedy.

?The McIlvaines very early on saw a grief counselor,? Senior tells The Experiment?s host, Julia Longoria, ?who said to them: ?Here?s how you have to think about this. You are all at the top of a mountain, and you all have a broken leg, and you all have to get down to the bottom of the mountain. But because you all have broken legs, you just have to take care of your own self and figure out how to get down.?? In this story, Senior explores how each family member dealt with their grief in very different ways. ?But there might be a flaw in that metaphor too,? she says, ?because, you know, some people never get down the mountain.? 

This episode?s guests include the Atlantic staff writer Jennifer Senior and Helen McIlvaine, Bob McIlvaine Sr., and Jeff McIlvaine, the family of Bobby McIlvaine Jr. 

Further reading: ?What Bobby McIlvaine Left Behind,? ?Everything My Husband Wasn?t There For?

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Alyssa Edes and Julia Longoria, with editing by Katherine Wells and Scott Stossel. Reporting by Jennifer Senior. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde.

Music by Water Feature (?Double Blessing I? and ?Richard III (Duke of Gloucester)?), Naran Ratan (?Forevertime Journeys?), Keyboard (?Being There,? ?Small Island,? and ?Staying In?), Parish Council (?Heatherside Stores), Alecs Pierce (?Harbour Music, Parts I & II?), and H Hunt (?Journeys?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Joe Plourde. Additional audio from C-SPAN.

Here in the United States, 19-year-old Aséna Tahir Izgil feels as though she?s a ?grandma.? Aséna is Uyghur, an ethnic minority being imprisoned in labor camps by the Chinese government. The pain she witnessed before escaping in 2017 has aged her beyond her years, she says, making it hard to relate to American teenagers.

?They talk about ? TikToks ? clothing, malls, games, movies, and stuff,? she says. ?And then the things I think about [are] genocide, Uyghurs, international policies ? all the annoying adult facts.?

For years, the Chinese government has been persecuting her people, but few have escaped to bear witness. This week on The Experiment: Aséna shares her family?s story of fleeing to the U.S. to escape genocide, adjusting to newfound freedom, and trying to deal with the grief and guilt of being a refugee.  

This episode?s guests include Aséna Tahir Izgil and her father, Tahir Hamut Izgil, a Uyghur poet and author.

Further reading: One by One, My Friends Were Sent to the Camps, Saving Uighur Culture From Genocide, ?I Never Thought China Could Ever Be This Dark,? China?s Xinjiang Policy: Less About Births, More About Control

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Julia Longoria, with help from Gabrielle Berbey and editing by Katherine Wells and Emily Botein. Fact-check by Yvonne Rolzhausen. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde. Translations by Joshua L. Freeman.

 A translation of Tahir Hamut Izgil?s poem ?Aséna? is presented below.

Aséna

By Tahir Hamut Izgil

Translation by Joshua L. Freeman

A piece of my flesh

torn away.

A piece of my bone

broken off.

A piece of my soul

remade.

A piece of my thought

set free.

In her thin hands

the lines of time grow long.

In her black eyes

float the truths of stone tablets.

Round her slender neck

a dusky hair lies knotted.

On her dark skin

the map of fruit is drawn.

She

is a raindrop on my cheek, translucent

as the future I can?t see.

She

is a knot that need not to be untied

like the formula my blood traced from the sky,

an omen trickling from history.

She

kisses the stone on my grave

that holds down my corpse

and entrusts me to it.

She

is a luckless spell

who made me a creator

and carried on my creation.

She is my daughter.

Ever since Kerri Strug and the Magnificent Seven won Olympic gold in 1996, the U.S. women?s gymnastics team has been a point of pride for many Americans. But over the past five years, athletes have been coming forward with allegations of widespread abuse in the sport. Former gymnasts say they were forced to train and compete with broken bones and that they were denied food. And dozens of women have testified that they were sexually assaulted by Larry Nassar, the former doctor who worked with the U.S. national team. 

USA Gymnastics, the governing body for elite gymnastics in the United States, has said it?s working hard to change the sport?s culture, but many former gymnasts say it hasn?t done enough.

?We have coaches and institutions and organizations and a country, frankly, that prioritize money and medals over the bodies and souls of people,? says Rachael Denhollander, a former gymnast who was the first woman to come forward publicly with accusations against Nassar. 

Now that we know the truth about how damaging elite gymnastics can be for young women and girls, should we change how we think about the sport? Denhollander says Simone Biles?s decision to withdraw from several Olympic events might change how athletes see their own worth. 

?That?s going to entail a lot of hard conversations,? Denhollander says. ?Do you have value and identity and worth outside of your gymnastics ability? If we really, truly understand that the answer to that is yes, that lays the foundation to be able to say, ?I can?t sacrifice my value, identity, the rest of my life for this one thing.?? 

This week on The Experiment: When national glory comes at the expense of young women?s bodies, can we still find a way to love the Olympics?

This episode?s guests include the Atlantic staff writer Emma Green and Rachael Denhollander, a lawyer and victims? advocate.

Further reading: ?The Gymnast Who Won?t Let Her Daughters Do Gymnastics?

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Apply for The Experiment?s fall internship. Applications will be accepted through August 20, 2021. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte and reported by Emma Green. Editing by Katherine Wells and Jenny Lawton. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman, with additional engineering by Joe Plourde.

Music by Keyboard (?The World Eating,? ?Staying In,? ?Ojima,? ?Contractions,? and ?My Atelier?), Ob (?Waif? and ?Ghyll?), and Laundry (?Films? and ?Phthalo Blue?), provided by Tasty Morsels and Nelson Nance. Additional audio from NBC Sports, NBC Nightly News, IndyStar, the Today show, The Ben Maller Show, and Dominique Moceanu.

The epic, oft-told origin story of Texas centers on the Lone Star State?s most infamous battle: the Battle of the Alamo, where American heroes such as Davy Crockett fought to the death against the Mexican army to secure Texas?s independence. The only problem, according to the writer and journalist Bryan Burrough, is that this founding legend isn?t all true. In June, Burrough and two other Texan writers set out to debunk the myth of the Alamo, only to find themselves in an unexpected battle with Texans still trying to protect their state?s revered origin story.

?The Anglo power structure here, which still dominates politics and the media,? Burrough says, ?can clearly see that if the myth melts away, other things could begin to melt away as well.?

This week on The Experiment: how a history book ignited a ferocious debate over Texas?s founding legend, and how this battle climbed the ranks all the way up to the Texas GOP. 

 This episode?s guest is Bryan Burrough, a co-author of Forget the Alamo: The Rise and Fall of an American Myth.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Gabrielle Berbey and Julia Longoria. Editing by Katherine Wells. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman. 

Music by Parish Council (?Marmalade Day,? ?Leaving the TV on at Night,? and ?Mopping?) and Keyboard (?The World Eating?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Joe Plourde, Sam Spence (?Overland? and ?River Crossing?), and Antonín Dvo?ák (?Symphony No. 8 in G Major, Op. 88, B. 163: I. Allegro con brio?). Additional audio from @ThisIsTexasFF; This Is Texas Freedom Force; KXAN; Walt Disney Productions, via Mabay Aleya and The Shadow; and Texas Public Policy Foundation.

In June, the Supreme Court issued a narrow ruling on college sports: Student athletes will now be able to receive educational benefits such as free laptops and paid internships. The decision may have seemed relatively small, but in this episode of the Experiment podcast, the Atlantic staff writer Adam Harris explains how it could change the way we think about college athletes.

College sports rake in billions of dollars a year for schools. But athletes themselves have historically been barred from making money by the NCAA in order to preserve their amateur status. ?Amateurism? has long been a central idea of college athletics: Student athletes play for the love of the game and an education, never for compensation. The myth (and marketing) of the ?student athlete? have grown over the past century, but starting in 2010, a scandal gradually shifted how the country saw college sports.

This week on The Experiment: The Atlantic staff writer and former college-basketball player Adam Harris explains how the myth of the amateur athlete was created, and why it may finally be on its way out.

This episode?s guests include Adam Harris, a staff writer at The Atlantic; Andy Thomason, an assistant managing editor at The Chronicle of Higher Education and the author of Discredited; Ramogi Huma, a former UCLA football player and the executive director of the National College Players Association; Mary Willingham, a former student-athlete academic adviser and whistleblower at the University of North Carolina.

Further reading: ?The Shame of College Sports,? by Taylor Branch

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Kevin Townsend and Julia Longoria. Editing by Katherine Wells. Reporting by Adam Harris. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman. 

Music by Laurie Bird (?Jussa Trip?), Parish Council (?Durdle Door? and ?Walled Garden 1?), Keyboard (?Freedom of Movement,? ?Mu,? and ?World View?), R McCarthy (?Cold? and ?Big Game?), and Column (?Sensuela?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by David Robidoux (?Rivals (B)?), Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (?Milan String Quartet No. 4 in E-flat Major?), and Claude Debussy (?String Quartet in G Minor?). Additional audio from MSNBC (clip 1 and clip 2); Fox News; CNN; Kennedy; CNN (clip 1, clip 2, and clip 3); NBC, via AirTexas; NCAA (clip 1, clip 2, clip 3, and clip 4); ESPN (via vslice02 and JD71andOnly); March Madness; WRAL; ACC Digital Network; Fox8; NPR; and Oyez.

Hate crimes in the United States have reached their highest levels in more than a decade, prompting bipartisan support for legislation to combat them and increased resources for law enforcement. But the recent COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act has spurred resistance from an unexpected source: activist groups that represent the people these laws are meant to protect.

This week on The Experiment, our correspondent, Tracie Hunte, investigates the 150-year history of legislating against racist violence in the U.S. and asks: Have we been policing hate all wrong?  

This episode?s guests include Jami Floyd, WNYC?s senior editor for race and justice; Saida Grundy, an assistant professor of sociology and African American studies at Boston University; Jason Wu, a co-chair of the LGBTQ advocacy group GAPIMNY; Jeannine Bell, a professor of law at Indiana University?s Maurer School of Law; and Sunayana Dumala, the founder of Forever Welcome.

As The Experiment podcast keeps growing, we?re looking for new ways to tell stories and better serve our listeners. We invite you to visit theatlantic.com/experimentsurvey to share your thoughts with The Atlantic and WNYC Studios.

Further reading: ?Calling the Atlanta Shootings a Hate Crime Isn?t Nearly Enough?

A transcript of this episode is available.

 Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

Editing by Katherine Wells, Emily Botein, and Jami Floyd. Special thanks to Kai Wright. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman and Hannis Brown. 

Music by Arabian Prince in a UK World  (?The Feeling of Being on a Diet?), Keyboard (?Ojima?), Water Feature (?In a Semicircle or a Half-Moon?), and Nelson Bandela (?311 Howard Ave 25 5740?), provided by Tasty Morsels and Nelson Nance. Additional music by Joe Plourde and Hannis Brown. Additional audio from PBS, the Obama White House, CBS News, NPR, and CNN.

Last summer, an unexplained phenomenon gripped nightly newscasts and Facebook groups across America: Unsolicited deliveries of obscurely labeled seed packages, seemingly from China, were being sent to Americans? homes. Recipients reported the packages to local police, news stations, and agriculture departments; searched message boards for explanations; and theorized about conspiracies including election interference and biowarfare. Despite large-scale USDA testing of the packages, the mystery remained: Who sent the seeds and why?

This week on The Experiment podcast, the host Julia Longoria speaks with the writer Chris Heath about his investigation of mystery seeds for The Atlantic, the byzantine world of international e-commerce, and the dangers of both panic and reason. 

Further reading: ?The Truth Behind the Amazon Mystery Seeds.? This article is part of ?Shadowland,? a project about conspiracy thinking in America.

A transcript of this episode is available. 

Be part of The Experiment. As #TheExperimentPodcast keeps growing, we?re looking for new ways to tell stories and better serve our listeners. Please visit theatlantic.com/experimentsurvey to share your thoughts with The Atlantic and WNYC Studios.

Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Katherine Wells and Julia Longoria, with help from Honor Jones. Fact-check by William Gordon and Michelle Ciarrocca. Sound design by David Herman and Hannis Brown.

From the Pilgrims? arrival at Plymouth Rock to the rise of the pandemic ?quarantini,? alcohol has been a foundation of American society and culture. The Atlantic's Kate Julian explores how this tool for cohesion and cooperation eventually became a means of coping, and what history can teach us about improving our drinking habits. 

This conversation originally ran on the podcast Today, Explained, hosted by Sean Rameswaram. 

Further reading: America Has a Drinking Problem

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The COVID-19 pandemic shattered social norms around physical closeness and intimacy. As the world reopens, how do we learn to touch other people again?even in normal, everyday ways? The Atlantic staff writer Emma Green seeks advice from the iconic sex therapist and Holocaust survivor Dr. Ruth on how to find pleasure and purpose after life-changing loss.

Further reading: Dr. Ruth on Finding Love After the Pandemic

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Julia Longoria and Katherine Wells, with help from Kevin Townsend. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by Alexander Overington.

Music by Laundry (?Films,? ?Phthalo Blue?), naran ratan (?Spring Nostril,? ?Forevertime Journeys?), Ob (?Waif?), Keyboard (?Contractions,? ?Shingles?), and water feature (?with flowers?); provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional audio from Good Sex! With Dr. Ruth Westheimer, The Dr. Ruth Show, SME.

The Columbia professor Carl Hart spent his career studying the effects of drugs, and uses heroin himself. In his book Drug Use for Grown-Ups, he argues that not only can drug use be safer, but that it?s our right. 

This week on The Experiment: how villainizing drug use interferes with our right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Alvin Melathe and Katherine Wells, with help from Gabrielle Berbey. Special thanks to Michelle Ciarrocca. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman. Engineering by Alexander Overington.

Music by r mccarthy (?Fine?), infinite bisous (?Touch 2 Much (Morsel)?), Ob (?Mog?), Parish Council (?Marmalade Day,? ?Museum Weather,? ?Heatherside Stores,? and ?Mopping?), and Column (??The Art of Fun? (Raj),? ?Quiet Song,? and ?Morsel Code?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional audio from CNN, FOX News, The Breakfast Club, and Pee-Wee Herman.

In the face of death, grief, and indifference, what can people do to make a change? In trying to understand a year of tragedy and conflict, correspondent Tracie Hunte looks back 30 years to explore the U.S. AIDS epidemic and how protesters balanced rage and anguish with pointed and often painstaking political action. 

This week on The Experiment, we hear from AIDS activists who put their bodies on the line and from the man they burned in effigy, Anthony Fauci. 

This story originally ran on Radiolab.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was reported by Tracie Hunte and produced by Annie McEwen and Tobin Low. Fact-checking by Diane Kelly.

Katharine Smyth is 39 years old and has never, to her knowledge, had an orgasm. This fact didn?t worry her very much until her 30s, when a divorce and a series of dates with frustrated men made her think she might never find love again. So she embarked on a quest?diving deep into an industry designed to solve her problem, searching for a feeling that?s been a fixation of science, pseudoscience, politics, and philosophy for centuries.

?The metaphor that came to me is that it?s kind of like a Rorschach test, where it?s this abstraction that all of these doctors and scientists are projecting their own worldview upon. And it?s almost always to the benefit of men.?

This week on The Experiment: A personal quest for sexual fulfillment reveals centuries of mythmaking about female pleasure. 

Further reading: The Tyranny of the Female-Orgasm Industrial Complex

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Julia Longoria and Gabrielle Berbey, with editing by Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Stef Hayes. Sound design by David Herman.

Music by infinite bisous (?Lost in Translation /2,? ?Why Should I??), r mccarthy (?Fine,? ?Jyoti,? ?She's a Gift Giver, She's a Giver of Gifts?), Parish Council (?Same Cake?), Safa Park (?Loose Yams?), Laundry (?Lawn Feeling?), Keyboard (?Staying In?), water feature (?a paradise?), and Nelson Bandela (?No Dummms 6860,? ?Hoop Dreams?), provided by Tasty Morsels and Nelson Nance. Additional music by Brian C. Chapman (?Casual Sex?) and Claude Debussy (?Prélude à l'Après-Midi d'un Faune?). Additional audio from MGM Studios, Sweet Alice, Film&Clips, Fox News, Miramax, and VCX Classics.

Lecrae Moore came up in a Christian culture deeply entwined with politics: Evangelicals were Republicans, and Republicans were evangelicals. As a Black college student, he found a sense of belonging in Bible study. His mentors and community were predominantly white and very conservative, but that didn?t really bother him. He found success as an artist and built a career in the white evangelical world.

Over time, though, he began to notice how much politics influenced his church culture. He was inspired by Barack Obama?s election, but felt unable to share that with his evangelical audiences. He was disturbed by the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, but faced backlash on social media for saying so. He started writing lyrics about race and the hypocrisy he saw among Christians, who he felt paid lip service to diversity but didn?t form substantive relationships with other communities. When he saw how strongly the evangelical world was going to champion Donald Trump, he decided to speak out. He lost money and fans, friends and mentors. And he almost lost his faith.

White evangelicals have arguably never been more powerful as a political force in America than they are now, but political victory has a human cost. People of all kinds of backgrounds have felt gutted by Christian support for Trump. Among Christians, the Trump era?s legacy might be fracture, not unity.

This week on The Experiment: the story of an evangelical artist who found his voice and lost his church.

Further reading: The Unofficial Racism Consultants to the White Evangelical World, How Trump Lost an Evangelical Stalwart, The Tiny Blond Bible Teacher Taking On the Evangelical Political Machine

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Katherine Wells and Alvin Melathe, with reporting by Emma Green. Editing by Julia Longoria, and Emily Botein. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman. Transcription by Caleb Codding.

Music by Ob (?Mog? and ?Wold?), water feature (?richard iii (duke of gloucester)?), Keyboard (?My Atelier?), Laundry (?Lawn Feeling?), Norvis Junior (?Overworld 7636? and (?Grim Reapers Groove 94?), and Nelson Bandela (?311 Howard Ave 25 5740? and ?Auddi Sun 09 Lop Lop 722?), provided by Tasty Morsels and Nelson Nance. Additional music performed by Lecrae, courtesy of Reach Records, arranged by The Orchard (?Dirty Water? and ?Take Me as I Am?). Additional audio from Real Life With Jack Hibbs, Matthew Phan, C-SPAN, ABC News, and Roland S. Martin.

These days, everyone assumes that this is just a fact of life: Evangelicals are Republicans, and Republicans are evangelicals. The powerful alliance culminated in the 2016 election of Donald Trump, tying the reputation of Christianity in America to the Trump brand?maybe permanently.

It wasn?t always like this. One man?a political operative from Georgia named Ralph Reed?devised a plan to harness the energy of young Christians and turn them into America?s most powerful voting bloc, one church mailing list at a time. Decades later, when Donald Trump came on the political scene, Reed knew he would be big?and convinced his fellow evangelicals that they should give him a shot.

Trump?s election was everything Reed spent his entire career fighting for: a president who was anti?abortion rights, listened to evangelical leaders, and advocated for Christians who felt pushed out of the public square. But Reed?s victory had a cost. Many, many Christians have come to feel that their church cares more about politics than Jesus. They have spoken out. They have grieved. And some of them have left.

This week on The Experiment, we have the first episode in a two-part series: Meet the man who turned a disparate group of evangelicals into America?s most powerful voting bloc and invented the evangelical political brand. Then join us next week for Part 2, when we?ll look at the human cost of political victory?a cost that might ultimately be very high.

Further reading: ?A Christian Insurrection?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Katherine Wells and Alvin Melathe, with reporting by Emma Green. Editing by Julia Longoria, Tracie Hunte, and Emily Botein. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman.

Music by Parish Council (?Looking for Tom Putt,? ?Leaving the TV on at Night,? ?Mopping?), Ob (?Ere?), Keyboard (?Staying In?), R McCarthy (?Big Game?), H Hunt (?Journeys?), and Infinite Bisous (?Brain?); provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Lorne David Roderick Balfe (?Petrify (b)?). Additional audio from Warner Bros. Pictures, Access Hollywood, C-SPAN, UCLA?s communications-studies department, and The 700 Club.

Dating shows often push contestants to extreme measures in pursuit of love. Reality-show producers will impose fake deadlines, physical obstacles, and manufactured drama to create the juiciest spectacle. But on TLC?s 90 Day Fiancé, a high-stakes and wildly popular reality show, the producers didn?t need to dream up a deadline: It?s a requirement of the rigorous U.S. visa-application process. 

The show follows real-life couples pursuing a K-1 visa?the ?fiancé visa??which allows a U.S. citizen?s foreign partner to enter the U.S. legally, but only for 90 days, the deadline by which they must get married. The show documents the complications of those emotionally charged 90 days, when two people from different countries, cultures, and sometimes races have to decide whether their relationship is real.

?From the very moment that the federal government became involved in immigration, you see the influence of biases of race as it?s intersecting with class and sexuality,? says Felicity Amaya Schaeffer, a professor of feminist studies and critical race studies at UC Santa Cruz.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte and Gabrielle Berbey, with editing by Katherine Wells, Julia Longoria, and Emily Botein. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman.

Music by Column (?Quiet Song,? ??The Art of Fun? (Raj),? and ?Sensuela?), water feature (?a horse?), Laundry (?Films?), r mccarthy (?Contemplation at Lon Lon?), Parish Council (?Walled Garden 1?), and infinite bisous (?(Terminally) Lovesick?), provided by Tasty Morsels and Nelson Nance. Additional music from APM (?Ordinary Fantasy,? ?Yaas Queen,? ?Your Fault,? ?Ballroom Big Band,? ?Brasillia,? ?Sinking Feeling,? ?Boogie Woogie,? ?Duplicity (a),? ?Oh My,? ?You Got It Baby,? ?Getaway,? ?Into the Mist,? and ?Freewheeling?). Additional audio from TLC, TLC U.K., and C-SPAN.

A transcript of this episode is presented below:

(Playfully plucky marimba-and-horn music plays.)

Tracie Hunte: So, to begin, I am going to send you a link. It?s a little bit long?it?s like seven minutes or so??cause this is your first time watching 90 Day Fiancé, anything having to do with 90 Day Fiancé, right?

Julia Longoria: That?s correct.

Hunte: Okay, okay.

Longoria: I?m just curious, like, why are you interested in this? Like, why should someone care?

Hunte: (Insistently.) Watch the clip, Julia! (Laughs, and Longoria joins in.)

(Music shifts into long, sustained notes to build drama.)

Longoria: We start today with correspondent Tracie Hunte guiding me into the unknown: the world of reality TV.

(A dramatic but upbeat musical flourish plays, like the intro to a theme song, before moving back to the plucky, quirky music.)

Hunte: Okay. So, Julia, 90 Day Fiancé is a wildly popular show on TLC. It?s about couples who are international?like, it?s usually one person lives in America, and the other person lives somewhere overseas?and I want to begin your 90 Day Fiancé journey with one couple in particular: Colt and Larissa.

Longoria: Okay. I?m gonna?do I hit play?

Hunte: Yes. Hit play!

Colt: My name is Colt. I?m 33 years old. I live in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Hunte: We are in Las Vegas, Nevada, and we?re at the airport, and we?re meeting Colt and Larissa. Colt is a white guy in his 30s. He lives in Las Vegas. 

Larissa: I am Larissa, 31 years old, from Minas Gerais, Brazil.

Hunte: And Larissa is from Brazil. She is also in her 30s. And they met online. They went on vacation together?to Cancun, I think?and after five days of this vacation together, Colt asked Larissa to marry him. And so she said yes.

Longoria: After one date they decided to get married?

Hunte: Yes, effectively one date. So what we?re doing right now is that we?re meeting Larissa for the first time. She?s just flown into Las Vegas, and this scene is basically her first impressions.

Longoria: First impressions of Las Vegas, right?

Hunte: Yes. 

Larissa: Here is hot. 

Colt: I don?t have air-conditioning. [A chuckle.] It?s going to get a little hotter too. 

Larissa: Oh my. I can feel the hot, warm.

Hunte: First of all, she?s hot. [Longoria chuckles.] It?s not the same sort of warmth in Brazil. I?ve been to Brazil; I know the difference between desert heat and beach heat, [Both laugh.] and I know which one I vastly prefer.

Larissa: My first goal in America is marry. Second, apply for the green card. And third, buy a car with air conditioner. [Laughs.]

(A beat.)

Larissa: I thought that was more big, you know.

Colt: It?s pretty big.

Larissa: Like New York.

(Up-tempo, jazzy, big-city ambience plays.)

Hunte: Las Vegas is also this thing that?s exported to the rest of the world through our movies and television shows?Ocean?s 11. Like, you get this idea that it?s this glamorous, glitzy, big city, you know, ?American dreams.? 

Longoria: Totally.

Hunte: Blah, blah, blah.

Longoria: Totally. Tall buildings, big lights.

Hunte: Yeah.

Longoria: Like, casinos.

Hunte: Exactly.

Larissa: My first impressions of Las Vegas? Not a city I expected. I confused Las Vegas with Beverly Hills, Hollywood, and New York. It?s not like the?the movies.

Hunte: And so you see her, like, get out of the car. She?s still very hot. She?s still very uncomfortable. And she?s like, ?Oh, here?s the sign!? And this is the world-famous Las Vegas sign. It?s on postcards, it?s on magnets, it?s everywhere. And it was actually surprising to me, ?cause I also didn?t realize it was that small. (Laughs.)

Colt: Are you going back to Brazil? (Chuckles.)

Larissa: No, no! I?m sorry. It?s?here?s so warm. 

Colt: Yeah?

Larissa: (Sighs.) Not in my American dream. 

Colt: This is America.

(Melodramatic, heavy piano music plays for a moment.)

Hunte: So yeah. I think that there?s just a lot more going on here other than just, like, a disappointed woman coming from Brazil. I think it?s, like, way bigger than that. 

(A musical descent pulls us into a dreamlike tapestry of synthesizers and percussion.)

Longoria: Okay, back me up for a second. Why is the show called 90 Day Fiancé?

Hunte: Well, it?s called 90 Day Fiancé because, if you?re an American person who wants to marry somebody from another country and you want to bring them to the United States, you can bring them to the United States on something called a K-1 visa, or a fiancé visa. And that gives that person permission to come to the United States to get married, but they have to do it within 90 days. 

And so?at least, how it functions in the world of the TV show; I?m sure it?s different for a lot of couples?you?re going to spend those 90 days not only planning a wedding, but just, like, getting to know each other better, and figuring out whether or not you could actually live together, and whether or not this is what you want to go through with.

Longoria: So what you?re saying, like, 90 Day Fiancé is a TV show based around this one piece?or, really, like, this one clause?in U.S. immigration policy?

Hunte: Yes.

Longoria: I?I did not realize that. [Hunte laughs.] Like, I guess I?ve always ? The thing I don?t like about reality shows is that, like, they?re sort of contrived. It?s like, ?Oh, 90 days to fall in love.? And it?s like, ?That?s not the way the world works.? But, in this case, it is. [Both laugh.] It literally is how the world works. Like, the U.S. government came up with this premise. 

Hunte: Yes! Yes. And, Julia, because you haven?t been watching reality TV, you?ve been missing a very important lesson about U.S. immigration policy. [Both laugh.] And I think this show is also, like, a really good textbook example of Americans? relationship with the world, and how the world sees Americans.

(Tonal shift: The music loops over the same few notes, hovering.)

Longoria: This week, correspondent Tracie Hunte, our resident reality-TV expert, watches one of the biggest shows on television and tells the story of how love got written into U.S. immigration law. 

I?m Julia Longoria. This is The Experiment.

(The notes hover for a moment more before cutting out.)

Hunte: Okay. So, new couple. This is Big Ed.

Big Ed: I?m Ed. I?m 54 years old. People know me as ?Big Ed.?

(Fast-paced plucky guitar music plays.)

Big Ed: I?m from San Diego, California. [A camera shutter clicks.] And I am a professional photographer.

Hunte: Big Ed, American white man in his 50s. He actually gave himself the name ?Big Ed.?

Big Ed: It?s funny because I?m not tall. I am actually 4?11.

Hunte: And then there?s Rose, who is much younger. She?s 23.

(Whimsical, reality-TV-show-style music plays, ostensibly to play up the comedy of the circumstances.)

Rose Vega: My name is Rose, and I am 23 years old. I?m live in Caloocan City, Philippines.

Hunte: They met on Facebook, and they?ve had their relationship just on Facebook, and, like, texting and calling. And he?s traveling to the Philippines to meet her and her family?and hopefully fall ever more deeply in love with her, and ask her to marry him.

Longoria: Yeah, okay. (Laughs.)

Big Ed: I spent the night at Rose?s home.

Hunte: And in this scene, Big Ed is waking up after spending the night in Rose?s house.

Big Ed: And this was one of the worst nights of my life. I?m completely drained. I haven?t slept. The mattress that I slept in was soaking wet. This was the first night I?ve ever spent without access to air-conditioning. And I hated it. And I feel broken.

(Music fades out.)

Longoria: (As Hunte giggles.) This is just so, so deeply uncomfortable to watch.

Hunte: So, like, a lot of this show is cringe. I should just say.

Longoria: Yeah. So walk me through what?s happening here.

Hunte: So, throughout the time that he?s in the Philippines, there?s, like, a scene where he?s asking her to shave her legs, because he doesn?t find her feminine enough for him. Or he makes a comment about her breath and gives her toothpaste and a toothbrush, but then it comes out that she actually has had an ulcer for many years, and that?s what?s causing her breath, and she?s actually self-conscious about it, and she brushes her teeth all the time. But, on top of all that, Ed travels to the Philippines from San Diego?something like six, seven thousand miles. And he goes because he?s gonna rescue Rose from this situation, this poverty that she?s in. And he?s already been doing that. He?s been, like, sending money to her and her family to help them out. But, from the second that he?s in the Philippines, he?s so completely helpless, and she?s the one that ends up having to rescue him this entire trip.

Why I find this so interesting is just, you know, to see this kind of power dynamic play out. And, also, like, it?s just also really interesting to see the disconnect between how Americans see themselves and how the rest of the world sees Americans.

(Soft, lo-fi music plays.)

Hunte: And so on this show, you see men like Big Ed. They say they lost hope that they could ever find a partner in the U.S., so they turned to international dating. And this is not just, like, some bizarre reality-TV show setup. Like, there?s a whole industry built around this kind of relationship.

(Music out.)

Felicity Amaya Schaeffer: Marriage is one of those ways in which women have?for many, many generations and decades?used marriage to get ahead. 

Hunte: Felicity Amaya Schaeffer is a professor of Feminist Studies and Critical Race Studies at UC Santa Cruz. She?s also the author of the book Love and Empire. Way before 90 Day Fiancé, Felicity became interested in how immigrants were using marriage to cross the border into the U.S. Over three years, she talked to dozens of men and women who were interested in these kinds of relationships.

Schaeffer: I ended up in Colombia and Mexico, interviewing women and men at these vacation romance tours about why they were interested in dating someone. Um ?

Hunte: Wait, what?s a ?vacation romance tour?? (Schaeffer chuckles lightly while Hunte laughs outright.)

Schaeffer: So, that is, um, these sort of big social parties that different companies host so that men from the United States and Canada can travel to Latin American countries and meet women in a big social event.

(Lightly bouncy music plays.)

Hunte: So here?s what Felicity discovered. Say you?re a woman in a foreign country interested in marrying an American man. You might contact one of these international dating sites, and they?ll get some photos of you and include some of your stats.

Schaeffer: Their weight, how tall they are?all kinds of personal information?and then their contact.

Hunte: The company then compiles these packages filled with these photos and contact info for all these women into these digital catalogs, and American men can look through them. And if they see someone they like, they could email them.

Schaeffer: And then, usually, they?ll all come together for these big sort of social parties. And it?s a quick way to meet lots of women and for the women to be introduced to lots of men, all in one place. 

Hunte: Which is where Felicity would show up, asking questions.

Schaeffer: Part of this that I?m also interested in is the fantasies that foreign women usually have of life in the United States, and vice versa.

You know, men sort of think that U.S. women are much too feminist and too modern and too independent. And they think that they?re gonna find something very different in Russia, Latin America?you know, wherever it is?Asia. And so they often are surprised that women, um, are very strong, have strong personalities, they need certain things, and that they don?t want to usually live in rural areas.

Hunte: Did you peer into the dark heart of American masculinity?

Schaeffer: Yes.

Hunte: What?d you see when you looked?when you peered it into it? (Laughs.)

Schaeffer: Oh my God, I mean, so many insecurities! Given the way in which desire is so entwined with status and money, you know, it?s?it?s a sad structure, that sort of capitalist context in which certain people become no one if you don?t have some game. 

I have this amazing interview with a guy who said to me something that really clarified things. He said, ?You know, in the United States, I?m just the average Joe. But when I cross the border, I become Tom Cruise.? 

It was hard, in some ways, and I felt really creepy. And then it was also sad, you know, to see that there?s so many lonely people that are just sort of in the shadows, um, that can?t meet anyone and just, like, really want to connect.

Hunte: Hmm.

Schaeffer: And these women are just desperate to come to the United States. And that the men, in some ways, broker their ticket to getting here. 

Hunte: Have you ever watched 90 Day Fiancé, or heard about it?

Schaeffer: Yes. I have watched some of the episodes, of course! (Laughs.)

Hunte: You watched it. Okay. 

Schaeffer: It?s hard to watch too many.

Colt: (Over funky music.) I never thought I would get married. All my previous relationships have ended with me getting a broken heart. (The funky music continues under Hunte?s narration.)

Hunte: Watching 90 Day Fiancé, I got this feeling that, for a lot of the cast, they might actually believe that a shot at the American dream is all they have to offer in exchange for love. Here?s Colt, the guy who lives in Las Vegas.

Colt: (Over the funky music again.) After having struck out a few times online with American girls, I thought maybe I could search outside the country, maybe find a girl. (The music fades out.)

Hunte: But, as Americans put themselves on the international marriage market hoping to find someone more beautiful, more loyal, more grateful, if that love turns out not to be true, they also have the power to take that American dream away ? Which brings me to one couple I think about a lot: Ashley and Jay.

Ashley: (Over soft-rock acoustic guitar.) My name is Ashley. I?m 31 years old, and I?m from Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

Hunte: Ashley is in her 30s. She?s white, blond, pretty, and a mother of two from Mechanicsburg, a town in Pennsylvania where more than 90 percent of the residents are white. 

While vacationing in Jamaica, she meets Jay, a Black, 20-year-old tattoo artist.

Ashley: (Over lightly techno music.) I went to Jamaica with a group of friends and family to a big wedding. And, um, one night we decided to go out to a bar, and that?s where I met Jay.

Hunte: Ashley says she?s been cheated on before, and Jay more or less admits that being faithful is hard for him. But when he proposes, she says yes. They file for the K-1 visa, and soon he?s on a plane, traveling to live with her in America. 

But Ashley admits that she hasn?t really thought about what that might mean for Jay, to live in a mostly white suburb.

Ashley: (Over slightly tense music.) I?m hoping we don?t have to deal with any racial issues, but I?m also very naive to all of this.

Hunte: Ashley and Jay get married, but shortly after the wedding, she finds out he had sex with another woman. So she calls him on the phone to confront him.

Ashley: (The tense music continues, adding drama with each expletive.) If you show up at my house, the police will be waiting to deport your ass. I don?t give a f***. I do not give a f***. He has to sit and rot in jail until they deport his ass. I don?t give a f***.

Hunte: And, just like that, Ashley goes from being this naive white woman who doesn?t understand race in America to a white woman asking the police to remove her disappointing Black, immigrant husband from her life, and from her country.

Ashley: I don?t want him near me. I don?t even want him in this country. He?s here illegally. He needs to go back to Jamaica.

(Low percussive music plays.)

Hunte: Some of this ugliness?this icky gender and racial dynamics, the heartbreak?this is just classic reality-TV-show stuff. But this particular drama of the 90 days and the K-1 visa started way before reality TV.

Hunte: For one thing, I, you know, I just kind of looked at the Wikipedia history of the K-1 visa, and I was kind of surprised to see that [Chuckles.] the Vietnam War had something to do with it.

Schaeffer: Yeah. I mean, it actually has a lot longer history, I would say, than the Vietnam War.

Hunte: After the break, how love got turned into a visa application.

(A moment of synthesizer melody plays above the percussive music, followed by the break.)

(A quick, goofy musical flourish.)

Hunte: The journey to 90 Day Fiancé is a long and winding one. As much as it?s a story about love across borders, it?s also a mini-drama about who we think is worthy of marriage and citizenship, and who has the power to decide. Felicity Amaya Schaeffer?she?s the professor at UC Santa Cruz who did research on so-called romance tours?told us that one of the earliest immigration laws ever passed in the U.S. was about romance, or, at least, sex.

Schaeffer: From the very moment that the federal government became involved in immigration, you see the influence of biases of race. 

Hunte: The law was called the Page Act, passed in 1875. It restricted the migration of Asian laborers to the United States for, quote, ?immoral purposes.? And it was primarily enforced against Chinese immigrants?but, more specifically, Chinese women.

Schaeffer: If you were the wife of a wealthy Chinese merchant, you could come to the United States. But, if you were a lower-class woman, you could not come. And this has to do with trying to prevent laborers from migrating and bringing women that they thought would destroy the values of the United States. 

Hunte: U.S. lawmakers assumed that poor Chinese women coming to the United States were coming here to be sex workers.

Schaeffer: This created some of the legislation that women had to have medical examinations before migrating.

Hunte: Why were they having them do medical exams?

Schaeffer: Chinese women were assumed to spread venereal diseases because they were assumed to be prostitutes. Women had to have that kind of medical exam before they were allowed entry.

(Light, ringing synthesizer music seems to travel back in time.)

Hunte: The law was eventually changed to allow more foreign women into the United States, but that?s because American men demanded it. Starting with the Philippines War in the late 1800s, American men were going all over the world, fighting wars and colonizing?and, in the meantime, meeting women they wanted to bring back to the U.S. and marry.

After World War II, thousands of American men wanted to bring women back from Europe and Asia, but couldn?t, because of immigration quotas. So Congress passed the War Brides Act.

Schaeffer: This was a kind of pathway for men to bring back wives. And there was, like, 300,000 women that came.

Hunte: It made it easier to bring the spouses of American military members back to the U.S. But the War Brides Act was only in effect for about three years?1945 to 1948. And as the Vietnam War began to wind down, American soldiers?who, once again, wanted to bring more foreign wives back to the U.S.?started demanding a more permanent solution.

Schaeffer: So 1970 was when the K-1 process was actually finalized. 

Hunte: But the relatively clear, simple, and quick path to permanent residency and eventual citizenship offered by the K-1 visa has alarmed American politicians over the years, and led to panics about marriage fraud.

Schaeffer: There were all kinds of media accounts about these sort of marriage-ring frauds that were allowing people to come in from Havana, and all these subversive types that were using marriage as a way to sort of skirt the usual immigration structures and enter into the country. And I think during the wars, it was a more clear understanding of how people met, and the conditions through which people met.

Hunte: So the soldiers were going overseas, falling in love, bringing women back. Now, when in the absence of that, it?s like, ?Wait, why are these women coming here??

Schaeffer: Mhm, mhm! [Hunte laughs.] Yeah! Yeah. ?What is their motivation for coming here?? I think that?s the next big phase, is already the presumption of fraud after the Vietnam War.

Senator Alan Simpson: We?re going to examine this issue of immigration marriage fraud. 

Hunte: Resulting in things like this: a Senate committee hearing on marriage fraud in 1985. Here?s Senator Alan Simpson.

Simpson: We?re going to inquire into the nature and extent of this situation, determine whether we see but another way of gimmicking our generous?very generous?legal immigration laws.

Hunte: And this led to a new immigration law. It made the green card immigrants got after they got married conditional. You didn?t get a permanent green card until after you?d been married for at least two years.

Suspicion of immigrants continued well into the ?90s, but the narrative changed to one where immigrants were now an economic liability.

Schaeffer: Because, you know, that?s always the language about immigrants, right? That they?re a drain on the economy, that they?re always taking from and, you know, using these precious resources that should go to citizens.

Hunte: So the K-1 visa changed again. In 1996, President Clinton signed a new rule into law. Starting now, Americans who brought a spouse to the U.S. on the K-1 visa were now legally responsible for that person for 10 years.

Schaeffer: Even if they divorce, he is taking up responsibility to make sure that she can live?even without a job?for the remainder of 10 years while in this country, if she decides to stay.

Hunte: Wow. Yeah, that is?that is a huge shift. 

Schaeffer: Yeah!

Hunte: That?s huge. 

Schaeffer: Yeah.

Hunte: It sounds like it?s to discourage people from doing this, is what it sounds like.

Schaeffer: Yes. That is an entirely huge shift, and men came to me complaining about that [Laughs.] over and over again.

Hunte: As part of her research, Felicity spent a lot of time on listservs for men interested in marrying foreign women. When this rule was put into place, she watched as they began to freak out, asking each other about potential red flags.

Schaeffer: It was everything from, you know, ?She doesn?t want to have sex ?til we get married. Is this a red flag?? ?Is she affectionate enough??  ?Is she, uh, hot and sexy in bed?? Like, ?Does she ask for money?? That was a big one that would come up.

And so, then, women, you know, didn?t have the benefit of this kind of community, but would often talk to me, like, ?I feel, really, like I can?t ask him for things that I need, because he seems so suspicious of me.? 

Hunte: Mmm.

Schaeffer: So, you know, it really did affect, um, what they could say to each other, how they would read each other?s actions.

Hunte: Felicity says the threat of financial consequences for a bad marriage with a foreign spouse may have made these kinds of relationships even more tense.

Schaeffer: And so I think that part of that shift in the K-1 visa structure led to, actually?or maybe facilitated?more abusive relationships, because the men were so skeptical and sort of adopting the view of the state.

(A heavy synthesizer whistle plays over a windswept musical landscape.)

Hunte: In 2000, Anastasia King, a 19-year-old originally from Kyrgyzstan, was murdered by her American husband after she was brought to the U.S. on the K-1 visa. It?s impossible to say for certain whether the pressure and suspicion that increased after changes to the K-1 visa increased the level of violence in these kinds of relationships. But, in response to this abuse, Congress realized it also had to protect immigrant spouses. So it passed the International Marriage Brokerage Regulation Act, or IMBRA, in 2005.

Schaeffer: Where men have to provide criminal records, and women have to have their rights.

Hunte: I spoke to a couple of immigration attorneys who told me immigrant women are still afraid that, if they report their American husbands for abuse, they?ll be deported?though there are provisions within IMBRA and the Violence Against Women Act to protect them. Even still, women in the U.S. on the K-1 visa, separated from family and community and unable to legally work, are often left vulnerable.

(A beat.)

Hunte: Today, as part of the K-1 application process, the foreign fiancé has to sit for an interview with an American consular official who?s trying to find out whether your relationship is real or a scam. You?re asked about your American partner?s birthday, education, family?but you?re also asked to maybe describe your engagement, or whether you?re planning to go on a honeymoon, or what kind of wedding you?re going to have. In other words, are you here for the right reasons? Do you really love this person?

(Heavy music plays.)

John, Colt?s cousin: How do you express your love to Colt?

Larissa: To show love? For me, it?s clean the house.

(The music continues under the narration.)

Hunte: Those interviews with consular officials are never caught on camera. But you can kind of get an idea of how they might go, watching friends and family on 90 Day Fiancé question the would-be foreign spouse. Here?s Colt?s cousin, John, asking Larissa to prove she loves Colt.

(The heavy music continues.)

John: You?re not just coming over here to marry my man for a green card, are ya?

Larissa: I?m with him because I love him.

(The music changes tone, like an investigative journalist intro on a late-night news show.)

Larissa: (In a confessional interview.) Honestly, John was acting like he?s policy or immigration officer. He was really rude to me.

(The news-show music fades out.)

Schaeffer: The United States is about choice and equality and democracy. So it?s interesting to think about how romance sort of sits in for all of these other values of a democracy. Like, are you capable of consenting to this? Or, if you come from a poor background, are you forced into this because you have no other recourse? That you really choose this person because you love them, and not for any other reasons. So it?s this sort of divorcing of economic questions from romantic ones.

(Soft, pensive electric guitar plays over lo-fi electronica. The word Lovesick repeats periodically, like a whisper.)

Hunte: So, Julia, what do you think?

Longoria: I mean, [Laughs.] this is, like, what?s so appealing and repulsing about reality TV, right? Watching this desperation on all sides play out like a car accident, you know? Are they here for the right reasons? Will they actually be truly in love?

Hunte: You know, there are, like, some couples on the show where it?s kind of obvious that the foreign fiancé is, like, only here for that person, and it kind of plays out in these funny ways. Like, I?m thinking about this one couple from the most recent season?Jovi and Yara?and Yara is from the Ukraine, and Jovi is an American guy from New Orleans. And they?re having a fight on the street, and, at one point, Jovi says, ?Oh, what? You?re just going to go back to the Ukraine?? and she just looks at him and says, ?Yeah! I?ll go back. I had a really nice life there!? And you can see that she?s, like, not here on a lark. She?s not here because she thinks that the United States is better than the Ukraine. She actually, you know?and she knows there?s a stereotype about eastern European women, and she?s rejecting that. She?s just literally here to be with this guy. So I just also like this show because it?s always questioning your assumptions about people and what their motivations might be.

Longoria: Yeah! And it kind of raises the question, like, what are the ?right reasons? to be in this kind of relationship?

Hunte: Yeah!

Longoria: ?or, really, any, right? (Chuckles.)

Hunte: And why does the American government even care that much? [Both laugh.] You know, if people are scamming, let them scam each other and fall in love. That?s all I have to say! (Laughs.)

(Upbeat, bubblegum techno music plays up.)

Hunte: I already think I know the answer to this question, but, Julia, do you think you will watch 90 Day Fiancé? (Bursts out laughing, and Longoria laughs too.)

Longoria: I mean, you watched it so I don?t have to!

Hunte: Alright! Fair enough, fair enough. (Laughs lightly.)

(The bubblegum music plays up.)

Gabrielle Berbey: This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte and me, Gabrielle Berbey, with editing by Katherine Wells, Emily Botein, and Julia Longoria. Fact-check by William Brennan. Sound design by David Herman. Music by Tasty Morsels. Special thanks to Maeve Higgins.

And extra-special thanks to Matt Collette, who helped deliver this show into the world. This is his last episode. Matt, we will miss you! Go forth and conquer! We can?t wait to hear what you?ll make next.

Our team also includes Natalia Ramirez and Alvin Melathe. The Experiment is a co-production of The Atlantic and WNYC Studios. Thanks for listening.

(The music, now embellished with a high-pitched whistle, plays up to a resolution, and then out.)

Copyright © 2021 The Atlantic and New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

One night in the spring of 2005, Anissa Jordan was sitting in a car in San Francisco while her boyfriend attempted to rob a young man nearby. Shortly after, police arrested both Anissa and her boyfriend. Anissa was detained and dressed in an orange jumpsuit before she learned that the young man had been shot and killed that night and that she and her boyfriend would both be held responsible. The charge: felony murder.

The felony-murder rule, which exists in more than 40 states, allows prosecutors to charge accomplices to certain crimes, such as conspiracy to commit robbery, with murder, even if they didn?t intend to kill?and even if they weren?t present for the murder. It does so by removing intent to kill from the calculus of what makes a murderer. Critics say the rule has disproportionately led to the incarceration of youth of color and women, such as Anissa, but some prosecutors say the felony-murder rule is the key to holding police officers responsible in the killings of civilians.

?By propping up this terrible rule, however we do it, we have to understand this rule is primarily used against Black people and people of color,? says Kate Chatfield, a director at the Justice Collaborative. 

This week on The Experiment, a look at the doctrine that prosecutors used to convict Anissa for a crime she didn?t even witness, and a debate over whether that same rule is crucial to prosecuting the highest-profile case in the country, The State of Minnesota v. Derek Chauvin. 

Further reading:  ?What Makes a Murderer?? 

This episode is part of The Atlantic?s project ?The Cycle,? which is supported by a grant from the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation?s Safety and Justice Challenge.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Alvin Melathe and Julia Longoria, with editing by Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by David Herman. Special thanks to Adam Harris and John Swansburg.

Music by Water Feature (?With Flowers,? ?Richard III(Duke of Gloucester),? and ?A Paradise?), Keyboard (?Being There? and ?My Atelier?), H Hunt (?C U Soon? and ?Having a Bath?), and R McCarthy (?Home/Home?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Bruce Wiley McKinnon Jr. (?Are You a Freak?) and Tyler O. Sterrett and Jason Trotta (?The Hamlet?). Additional audio from KQED and MPR News.

In her fight for women?s rights, the then?ACLU lawyer Ruth Bader Ginsburg did something unexpected: She argued on behalf of men.

?It didn?t matter to her if the plaintiff was a man or a woman,? says the Georgetown law professor Wendy Williams. ?Because in most of those cases, the discrimination against the man was derivative of a prior and worse discrimination against the woman.?

Craig v. Boren involved Oklahoma frat boys, a drive-through convenience store, and gender-specific beer laws. The Supreme Court?s landmark 1976 decision was foundational in advancing equal rights for women and represented a key moment in the future justice?s career.

This story originally ran on More Perfect, a Radiolab spin-off about the Supreme Court.

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected]. Listen and subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | Google Podcasts

The national-park system has been touted as ?America?s best idea.? David Treuer, an Ojibwe author and historian, says we can make that idea even better?by giving national parks back to Native Americans.

?By virtue of the parks returning to Native control, I would like people, when they?re standing at the foot of El Capitan, to look up knowing they?re on Native lands, to look up knowing that they?re standing on the graves of Native people,? says Treuer, who grew up on the Leech Lake Reservation in northern Minnesota as the nearby Voyageurs National Park was being established. ?I would like, when people look up at vistas, like at Yosemite or at Yellowstone, that they?d look up as a way to look back at the history of this country.?

Treuer, who wrote the book The Heartbeat of Wounded Knee: Native America From 1890 to the Present, says that Native Americans are too often precluded from using the land in culturally significant ways that go back millennia. In his essay for The Atlantic, he makes the case that the U.S. should return control of national parks to its Native people.

Further reading: ?Return the National Parks to the Tribes?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Tracie Hunte and Gabrielle Berbey, with editing by Matt Collette and Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Jack Segelstein. Sound design by David Herman.

Music by Laundry (?Films?), Parish Council (?Socks Before Trousers? and ?Heatherside Stores?), h hunt (?11e? and ?Journeys?), and naran ratan (?Trees etc.), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by John Charles Schroeder and Ross Taggart Garren (?Mournful Blues?) and Ken Anderson and Rebecca Ruth Hall (?Calliope - Underscore?). Additional audio from National Geographic, WNYC, PBS, and C-SPAN.

The patients of the nurse practitioner and aspiring reality star Jeffrey Young say he helped them like nobody else could. Federal prosecutors who charged him in a massive opioid bust say he overprescribed painkillers, often for ?money, notoriety, and sexual favors.? 

Young?s case provides a rare glimpse into the ways patients wind up addicted to the powerful painkillers fueling the national opioid epidemic.

Branding himself ?the Rock Doc? in a self-produced reality-TV pilot, Young would wear band T-shirts and blast music as he met with patients; he sometimes broadcast appointments and medical procedures on the live-streaming app Periscope. Off camera, Young allegedly prescribed 1.4 million addictive pills and had sex with female patients.

Young was indicted on drug-trafficking charges in April 2019. He pleaded not guilty to the charges, and is currently in jail awaiting trial.

?I had a lot of ?Why on earth?? questions,? the Atlantic reporter Olga Khazan says. ??Why would he do this? Why would you go to this doctor? Why didn?t anyone try to put a stop to this?? I just had a lot of questions about how could this happen.?

Further reading: ?The Hard-Partying, Rock-Obsessed Nurse at the Center of a Massive Opioid Bust?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was reported by Olga Khazan and produced by Alvin Melathe. Editing by Katherine Wells, Julia Longoria, and Denise Wills. Fact-check by Michelle Ciarrocca and Jack Segelstein. Sound design by David Herman.

Music by Parish Council (?Dabbles?), water feature (?ariel?), Arabian Prince in a UK World (?The Feeling of Being on a Diet?), Keyboard (?Being There? and ?My Atelier?), and Column (??The Art of Fun? (Raj)? and ?Sensuela?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Nelson Bandela (?04 HIDDEN FORCES? and ?Auddi Sun 01 131?). Additional audio from Purdue Pharma, The Rock Doc TV Show, @JY2RocDoc, and Bat Pig Pictures. 

In 1902, a Swedish American pastor named Henning Jacobson refused to get the smallpox vaccine. This launched a chain of events that landed the Massachusetts pastor in a landmark 1905 Supreme Court case in which the Court considered the delicate balancing act between individual liberty over our bodies and our duty to one another.

"We can be grateful for his work here [while] at the same time also saying the dude was terribly mistaken about this one thing for which, unfortunately, he's most famous now,? says Pastor Robin Lutjohann, who today leads the church that Jacobson founded, originally a haven for Swedish immigrants.

The Jacobson v. Massachusetts decision made clear that the government could mandate vaccination, arguing that collective good sometimes outweighs individual rights. But the line between the two is blurry. More than two decades after Jacobson?s case, the Court used the same logic in another decision, one the historian Michael Willrich says is among the ?scariest U.S. Supreme Court decisions of all time.?

Be part of The Experiment. Use the hashtag #TheExperimentPodcast, or write to us at [email protected].

This episode was produced by Julia Longoria and Gabrielle Berbey, with editing by Katherine Wells. Fact-check by Will Gordon. Sound design by David Herman.

Music by Ob (?Wold?), Parish Council (?Leaving the TV on at Night,? ?Museum Weather,? ?P Lachaise?), Alecs Pierce (?Harbour Music, Parts I & II?), Laundry (?Lawn Feeling?), water feature (?richard iii (duke of gloucester)?), Keyboard (?Mu?), and naran ratan (?Forevertime Journeys?), provided by Tasty Morsels. Additional music by Dieterich Buxtehude (?Prelude and Fugue in D Major?), Johannes Brahms (?Quintet for Clarinet, Two Violins, Viola, and Cello in B Minor?), and Andrew Eric Halford and Aidan Mark Laverty (?Edge of a Dream?).