Here?s a shocking number: One out of eight American adults is taking a GLP-1, like Ozempic or Zepbound, according to a KFF poll.

GLP-1s are the biggest pharmaceutical story since antidepressants. But there?s still so much we don?t know.

?We?re only at the beginning of what?s been called this Ozempic era,? the journalist Julia Belluz told me. ?I think we?re really just at the beginning of discovering the benefits and the harms of these drugs.? These discoveries begin in the research but are also expanding into how we think about our punishing beauty standards and the blurry lines between illness and wellness.

Belluz is a contributing Opinion writer and the author, with Kevin Hall, of ?Food Intelligence.? She?s one of the best health and science reporters I know and has been reporting on GLP-1s for years.

In this conversation, Belluz takes me through what we know ? and don?t know ? about GLP-1s, their unexpected uses, how they are clashing with a culture obsessed with thinness and looksmaxxing, and whether everyone should be on them.

Mentioned:

?The obesity pay gap is worse than previously thought? by The Economist

?The Great Ozempic Experiment? by Julia Belluz

Book Recommendations:

Behave by Robert M. Sapolsky

The Poison Squad by Deborah Blum

Ultra-Processed People by Chris van Tulleken

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of ?The Ezra Klein Show? at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

This episode of ?The Ezra Klein Show? was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Julie Beer. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Johnny Simon. Our recording engineer is Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show?s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Transcript editing by Sarah Murphy and Marlaine Glicksman.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

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In the U.S., illiberalism is in power. I don?t think anybody really argues against that. But I?ve been surprised by how weak liberalism has felt in response.

Donald Trump isn?t a popular president; he isn?t making people want more of what he is. But if the forces of illiberalism are really going to be turned back in this country, I think more people need to be excited and inspired by liberalism itself. We need a liberalism that stands for more than ?not Trump.?

So I?ve been on my own esoteric journey, reading a lot of books on the history of liberalism, trying to understand what excited and inspired people in the past, and how liberals overcame crises like the one we?re in. And reading one of those books, ?The Lost History of Liberalism? by Helena Rosenblatt, it felt like an epiphany ? that this was a piece of the puzzle.

So I wanted to have Rosenblatt on the show to talk about it. Rosenblatt is a professor of history, political science and French at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and in this conversation, she walks me through the history of liberalism that she uncovered, and the values that once lived at its heart.

Mentioned:

Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville

Liberalism by Edmund Fawcett

Book Recommendations:

Liberalism against Itself by Samuel Moyn

Liberalism as a Way of Life by Alexandre Lefebvre

Thinking With Machines by Vasant Dhar

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of ?The Ezra Klein Show? at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

This episode of ?The Ezra Klein Show? was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair and Julie Beer. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Johnny Simon. Our recording engineer is Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show?s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Lauren Reddy. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Transcript editing by Filipa Pajevic and Marlaine Glicksman.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

?Abundance? came out a little over a year ago. It?s been exciting ? and a little disorienting ? seeing how it?s rippled out into the world, and the ways it?s been embraced and debated and critiqued. So I wanted to take a moment to talk through what?s really happened in the last year ? with Derek Thompson, my ?Abundance? co-author, and Marc Dunkelman, whose book ?Why Nothing Works? came out around the same time, and circles the same ideas.

What has the abundance movement actually achieved in the last year? Where has it fallen short? And what have the three of us learned from our critics?

Mentioned:

Ezra is moderating a forum on housing and affordability with some of the top California gubernatorial candidates. The event is on Friday, May 8, in Oakland, CA. You can buy tickets here. Use the code EKSHOW for 20 percent off your order.

Abundance by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson

Why Nothing Works by Marc J. Dunkelman

Derek Thompson?s Substack

The Power Elite by C. Wright Mills

The Power Broker by Robert A. Caro

?The Most Expensive Mile of Subway Track on Earth? by Brian M. Rosenthal

?Why Are Palantir and OpenAI Scared of Alex Bores?? by The Ezra Klein Show

?The Anti-Social Century? by Derek Thompson

Bowling Alone by Robert D. Putnam

The Permanent Problem by Brink Lindsey

?Bernie Sanders: ?There Ain?t Much of a Democratic Party? by Bernie Sanders and David Leonhardt

Book Recommendations:

Making a New Deal by Lizabeth Cohen

Stuck by Yoni Appelbaum

Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner

Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis

The Secret History by Donna Tartt

Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy, Narrated by Richard Poe

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of ?The Ezra Klein Show? at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.

This episode of ?The Ezra Klein Show? was produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Annika Robbins and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Isaac Jones and Aman Sahota. Our recording engineer is Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show?s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta and Lauren Reddy. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. And special thanks to Brianna Johnson.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In a couple weeks, the archives of our show will only be available to subscribers. Here?s why that?s happening and what to expect. 

To learn more, go to nytimes.com/podcasts.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Every Tuesday and Friday, Ezra Klein invites you into a conversation about something that matters. How do we address climate change if the political system fails to act? Has the logic of markets infiltrated too many aspects of our lives? What is the future of the Republican Party? What do psychedelics teach us about consciousness? What does sci-fi understand about our present that we miss? Can our food system be just to humans and animals alike?

Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

?The Ezra Klein Show? is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.