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Constant Wonder

Constant Wonder

Stay in tune with our phenomenal world. Join us for explorations of science, art, history, and more. We're on a quest to find awe and wonder in all nature?human or wild, vast or small. Encounters that move us beyond words. Hosted by Marcus Smith, Constant Wonder is a production of BYUradio.

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Episodes

TRAILER: Constant Wonder Podcast

Join host Marcus Smith for conversations that invite you to discover, explore, and reengage with the wonders of the world around you. Find new episodes that will be available each week starting February 9th, 2022.
2021-12-01
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So Much to Love About Constant Wonder!

A new season of fresh content is on its way! In the meantime, nature writer Gayle Boss takes a minute to enumerate the many joys that Constant Wonder brings her as a listener. Find out why an "abandon to wonder" can make all of us feel more alive!
2025-01-01
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Animal Adventures from Constant Wonder KIDS!

Bringing the wonders of the natural world to the curious kids in your life, Constant Wonder KIDS is the podcast that turns everyday moments into extraordinary adventures! This new show from Constant Wonder shares fascinating facts and true stories about amazing people doing incredible things in nature. Join us as we explore the playful side of octopuses who enjoy toys like Lego bricks. Dive into the ocean with whale sharks and meet one who has an unexpectedly friendly personality. Or cheer for tiny athletes at the International Hedgehog Olympic Games. Each episode of Constant Wonder KIDS is a bite-sized story taken from its parent podcast, Constant Wonder. Perfect for road trips, bedtime listening, or when your brain?s got an itch that needs to be scratched.
2024-09-09
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Best of Constant Wonder 2023

Constant Wonder shares excerpts of three of our favorite episodes from 2023. We meet a family who discovered that their Nazi grandfather had actually aided the French resistance in WWII; we follow two intrepid female botanists along a death-defying boat trip through the Grand Canyon; we meet a "range rider" who keeps the peace between ranchers and wolves. These are only a sampling of the fascinating, inspiring conversations from the last year. Guests: Burkhard Bilger, author of "Fatherland: A Memoir of War, Conscience, and Family Secrets" and staff writer at "The New Yorker" Melissa Sevigny, author of "Brave the Wild River: The Untold Story of Two Women Who Mapped the Botany of the Grand Canyon." Thanks to Lew Steiger for allowing us to use his recordings of Lois Jotter's recollections. Daniel Curry, range rider and wolf advocate in Eastern Washington
2023-12-27
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FEED DROP: Curator's Choice at Luray Caverns

While we're busy working on Season 8 of the Constant Wonder podcast, we're pleased to bring you an episode from a podcast we think you'll love. In Curator's Choice, Ayla Sparks goes behind the scenes at museums and other points of interest, getting the stories that explain why they're so special. In this episode, you'll learn the quirky and litigious history of Luray Caverns' discovery. You'll also hear the world's largest lithophone, aka the "stalacpipe organ." If you enjoy this episode be sure to check out more Curator's Choice adventures at Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And join us on May 8 for the launch of Constant Wonder Season 8, which gets going with an episode on nematodes, the astounding, ubiquitous and sometimes, you might say, iniquitous microscopic worms beneath your feet.
2024-04-17
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BONUS: Eat the Invaders

When invasive plants and animals crowd out native species?and you just can't beat 'em?you might as well eat 'em! That's Joe Roman's argument. It's not a perfect solution, but from lionfish in the Caribbean to the snails and weeds in your backyard, chefs and foodies are serving up invasive species in the name of conservation. Enjoy this short bonus episode from Constant Wonder! Guest: Joe Roman, conservation biologist and research affiliate at the University of Vermont; author, "Eat, Poop, Die: How Animals Make Our World"
2023-11-15
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TRAILER: Season 6 of Constant Wonder

Join us for conversations that invite you to discover, explore, and engage with the wonders of the world around you. New episodes available Wednesdays, starting September 20, 2023, on your favorite podcast platforms and the BYUradio app.
2023-09-06
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ARCHIVE BONUS: Life As an Astronaut

Astronaut Terry Virts experienced a juxtaposition of the sublime and the mundane, sensing God while floating weightless, fixing cables outside his spacecraft. While in orbit, Virts took more than 300,000 photos, which became part of the National Geographic IMAX film "A Beautiful Planet." Podcast Guest: Colonel Terry Virts, fighter pilot, test pilot, NASA astronaut, and author of "How to Astronaut: An Insider's Guide to Leaving Planet Earth." He also directed "One More Orbit,? documenting the fastest circumnavigation of the earth via both poles.
2022-11-02
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ARCHIVE BONUS: The Dressmakers of Auschwitz

In Auschwitz, twenty-five Jewish slaves used their sewing skills to survive the Holocaust. The Upper Tailoring Studio, run by the commandant's wife, Hedwig Höss, and a prisoner, Marta Fuchs, was created to design, cut, and sew popular fashions for the Nazi elite. But it was also the means of saving Jewish women from the gas chambers. Guest: Lucy Adlington, author of "The Dressmakers of Auschwitz: The True Story of the Women Who Sewed to Survive"
2022-05-25
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ARCHIVE BONUS: The Hidden Life of the Deep Ocean

The abyss of the deep sea is anything but lifeless!
2022-10-05
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BONUS: Fabric: History Hidden in Plain Sight

The history of fabric is the history of life and death on this planet.
2022-09-07
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BONUS: Our Animal Superpowers (Extended Version)

Extended version of our conversation with Jackie Higgins.
2022-04-22
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Roots of Belief Featuring: The Apple Seed

Constant Wonder is giving listeners a sneak peak of another BYUradio show, The Apple Seed. In this episode, a musician and a couple of actors take unlikely approaches to sharing scripture. (4:58) Detroit storyteller and blues guitarist Robert B. Jones talks about how he became an ordained minister (9:51) Rev. Jones tells the story of he built his guitar from the wood from different parts of his childhood home to stay connected to his hometown in the story ?Detroit Guitar,? recorded live in the Apple Seed studio (25:32) Host Sam Payne connects with his Greek grandparents by learning to cook Greek food in today?s entry in The Radio Family Journal (34:03) Two New York pals connect to their heritage by performing Torah stories for families as a duo called The Bible Players
2022-04-27
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What Makes a City Great? Featuring: Top of Mind

Constant Wonder is giving listeners a sneak peak of another BYUradio show, Top of Mind. Millions of Americans move each year in search of a better house, neighborhood, job, or quality of life. Is leaving the only way to live some place better? What would it take for an imperfect place to become your perfect match? Today we crisscross the country and check in with Top of Mind listeners about what makes a city great. Guests: Majora Carter, author of ?Reclaiming your Community? Jim and Deb Fallows, co-authors of ?Our Town: A Journey into the Heart of America? Melody Warnick, author of ?This Is Where You Belong? and ?If You Could Live Anywhere? Lynn Kreutz, Hayley Trotter, Reed Wolfley, Erika Layland, Jenny Van Stone, Kim Parati ? Top of Mind Listeners
2022-07-13
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ARCHIVE BONUS: Pho-nomenal!

An exploration of delectable foods and the people who make them: Pho is delicious and nutritious, one of the best comfort foods. Learn some tips for making your own pho at home. Every week, 400,000 food lovers wait anxiously for a new video about pasta from their favorite YouTubers: authentic Italian grandmothers. And, St. Vith, Belgium is home to the only sourdough library in the world?they are dedicated to preserving and researching sourdough for current and future generations. Guests: Andrea Nguyen, cooking teacher, editor, consultant, and author of "Vietnamese Food Any Day: Simple Recipes for True, Fresh Flavors" and "The Pho Cookbook: Easy to Adventurous Recipes for Vietnam's Favorite Soup and Noodles? Vicky Bennison, creator of ?Pasta Grannies? YouTube channel Karl De Smedt, Sourdough Librarian at Puratos Sourdough Library, St. Vith, Belgium
2022-08-10
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Is There Such Thing As a "Bad" Naturalist?

When Paula Whyman started trying to rehabilitate 200 acres she'd just bought, she knew very little about conservation. Among many other challenges, she faced off with mile-a-minute vine and rattlesnakes, but, with self-effacing humor and passion for this corner of the Blue Ridge Mountains, she persisted (and still persists!) in restoring the land to a healthy equilibrium. Guest: Paula Whyman, author of "Bad Naturalist: One Woman?s Ecological Education on a Wild Virginia Mountaintop"
2025-04-09
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Getting Away Makes You a Better Neighbor

Use the power of retreat and meditation to ease the stress of our frenetic lifestyle. From decades of friendship with the Dalai Lama, Pico Iyer has learned the value of sacred silence. Guest: Pico Iyer, author of "Aflame: Learning from Silence"
2025-04-02
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How to Snorkel Right in Your Own Backyard (Practically)

If snorkeling seems like something you can only do on a tropical vacation, think again. In this podcast episode, we meet a river snorkeling guide who encourages us to stick our heads in the water, right in our local streams and rivers. Keith Williams thinks you'll be amazed at the aquatic life you'll see there. Tune in to Constant Wonder and get hooked with some amazing fish tales. Guest: Keith Williams, author of "Snorkeling Rivers and Streams: An Aquatic Guide to Underwater Discovery and Adventure" and guide at Freshwater Journeys Originally aired on January 25, 2023
2025-03-26
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How a Writer Rewired Her Brain After Amnesia

After waking from a coma with devastating brain damage, Samina Ali relearns to walk and speak alongside her newborn son. Guest: Samina Ali, author of "Pieces You'll Never Get Back: A Memoir of Unlikely Survival"
2025-03-19
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Hare in the House: An Enchanting and Wild Companion

When Chloe Dalton starts caring for a newborn hare, the line between "indoors" and "outdoors" blurs?inviting her to explore the natural world that she previously took for granted. Guest: Chloe Dalton, author of "Raising Hare: A Memoir" © The British Library; Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/deed.en; BYU Broadcasting does not claim ownership in the wildlife sounds provided by The British Library obtained at https://bit.ly/4ipDIU8; no changes made
2025-03-12
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The Simple, Wonder-full Life of the Snowflake Man

From rural oddity to New York Times writer, Wilson Bentley's singular devotion to snow and desire to share it with others changed snow science forever. Guests: Wayne Howe, former president of the Jericho Historical Society; Kenneth Libbrecht, professor of physics at the California Institute of Technology; Anna and Juniper of Jericho, VT; Seth of Provo, UT. Special thanks to Rod Gustafson for voicing Wilson Bentley. Photo courtesy of snowflakebentley.com
2025-03-05
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Humor: A Powerful Tool in the Face of Anxiety

Clint Edwards' hilarious honesty gives encouragement to those struggling with mental health challenges. Facing off his anxiety with humor and hope, he learns to raise his a family of his own after growing up at odds with his parents. Guest: Clint Edwards, blogger and author of "Anxiously Ever After: An Honest Memoir on Mental Illness, Strained Relationships, and Embracing the Struggle" Originally Aired on February 8, 2023
2025-02-26
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How Adoptee Found Birth Family Thanks to Mysterious Tattoo

When Korean adoptee Sara Jones went looking for her birth family, she wondered if a strange tattoo given to her in childhood could unlock any secrets. Adopted into an American family at age three, Jones found much success here in America, becoming an attorney and CEO. It wasn't until her own kids started asking questions that she decided to search for her birth family. And she started her search with that mysterious tattoo. Guest: Sara Jones, CEO of InclusionPro, Board Member of The (Utah) State Workforce Development Board, Board of Trustees for Intermountain Salt Lake Valley Hospitals, Co-Founder of Women Tech Council. Originally aired on October 26, 2022
2025-02-19
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Pittsburgh's Revolutionary Black Paramedics Made a Breakthrough in Medicine, Part II

A norm-shattering young White female doctor joins Black paramedics in 1970s Pittsburgh. And, meet the graceful but determined Black paramedic who provided unheralded leadership in spite of racism from patients and superiors. Guests: Kevin Hazzard, author of "American Sirens: The Incredible Story of the Black Men Who Became America's First Paramedics" John Moon, former paramedic at Freedom House and former Assistant Chief, City of Pittsburgh EMS Photo Credit: Harvard University, Schlesinger Library on the History of Women in America Originally aired on September 28, 2022.
2025-02-14
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Pittsburgh's Revolutionary Black Paramedics Made a Breakthrough in Medicine, Part I

Before 1966, if you needed transport to the hospital, authorities might send a police car, or even a hearse. That year, Pittsburgh's non-profit Freedom House set out to change that for the city's predominately Black Hill District. Staffed by trained Black men, their ambulance service served as a model for newly emerging paramedic services around the country. Guests: Kevin Hazzard, author of "American Sirens: The Incredible Story of the Black Men Who Became America's First Paramedics" John Moon, paramedic at Freedom House and former Assistant Chief, City of Pittsburgh EMS Photo Credit: Heinz History Center Originally aired on September 21, 2022.
2025-02-12
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Unlock Unexpected Wisdom from a Dynamic Planet

The Earth's crust reveals a dynamic, lively epic unfolding. Dramatic changes in the Earth's geology offer inspiration for its human residents. Guest: Marcia Bjornerud, author of "Turning to Stone: Discovering the Subtle Wisdom of Rocks" and Professor of Geosciences and Environmental Studies, Lawrence University
2025-02-05
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Discovering Extraordinary Awe in Tragedy

After cancer takes his brother's life, Dacher Keltner repeatedly experiences awe in ways that expand the boundaries of what, even for him, is real. Guest: Dacher Keltner, founding director, Greater Good Science Center, UC Berkeley; author, "Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life" Originally aired 2/15/23
2025-01-29
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Finding a New Life in the Woods

Jarod Anderson found unique purpose in the woods of his childhood during a life-threatening battle with depression. As the host of the popular podcast "The Cryptonaturalist," he shares real love for nature with thousands through whimsical, magical, and outright outrageous stories.
2025-01-22
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Learning Ultimate Empathy . . . from Chickens

What can animals written off as "mindless" or "scary" teach us about developing compassion for the natural world and for other people? Guest: Sy Montgomery, author of "What the Chicken Knows: A New Appreciation of the World's Most Familiar Bird"
2025-01-15
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Not So Scary: The Dazzling Secrets of the Dark

Darkness makes even the most familiar places unfamiliar. But Leigh Ann Henion finds this exciting, not scary?night reveals a magical, wondrous world. Guest: Leigh Ann Henion, author of "Night Magic: Adventures Among Glowworms, Moon Gardens, and Other Marvels of the Dark"
2025-01-08
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The Awe-Inspiring Magic Hidden in Everyday Delights

Poet and essayist Ross Gay talks about finding moments of wonder in everyday life. Wandering, finger painting, laundromats, bike riding, gardening, listening to beautiful music, recognizing the care that is offered to us. In this episode of Constant Wonder, we discover Ross Gay's philosophy of delight. Originally aired October 25, 2023 Guest: Ross Gay, author of "The Book of Delights," "Inciting Joy," and "The Book of (More) Delights"
2024-11-27
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Getting Giddy in the Quiet World of Plants

Get to know BBC personality and naturalist Mike Dilger, from his passion for birds and wildlife, to his adventures in the cloud forests of Ecuador. In this podcast episode, we explore Mike's early experiences with birdwatching, his quest to find 1,000 different plant species in a single year, and his heartwarming proposal story, involving a ladder, a ring, and some chickens. Mike Dilger celebrates the natural world with contagious enthusiasm. Guest: Mike Dilger, BBC presenter and author of "One Thousand Shades of Green" Episode originally aired April 19, 2023
2024-11-20
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Resilient Female Botanists Challenge the Untamed Colorado River

In 1938, two botanists from Michigan challenge the raging Colorado River in pursuit of cactus, the first known women to run the river through the Grand Canyon. An entertaining but little-known tale of resilience and beauty at the edge of the impossible. Episode originally aired September 9, 2023. Guest: Melissa Sevigny, author of "Brave the Wild River: The Untold Story of Two Women Who Mapped the Botany of the Grand Canyon." Thanks to Lew Steiger for allowing us to use his recordings of Lois Jotter's recollections. Kyle Remand, Ryan Clark, Brian Tanner, Eric Glissmeyer, Audrey Hughes, Kristi Lindstrom, Becca Hurley, and Barry Squires voiced the various roles.
2024-11-13
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A Boy from the Streets Crashes Symphony Hall

A story of human triumph: A young child is rescued from life on the streets, fostered, and mentored. He chases a dream to play classical music, and now as a mentor himself, he encourages others to dream big. With humility and humor, Richard Antoine White shares his unique journey. A favorite episode reprise, originally posted October 12, 2022. Guest: Richard Antoine White, author of "I'm Possible: A Story of Survival, a Tuba, and the Small Miracle of a Big Dream"; principal tubist for the Santa Fe Symphony and the New Mexico Philharmonic; Associate Professor of Tuba/Euphonium at the University of New Mexico
2024-11-06
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From Hidden Secrets To Inspiring Peaks

A widowed mother's secrets haunted her young boys' lives. When Philip Yancey discovered the truth about his father's death at age 23, he had to reframe his entire understanding of his family's past. Eventually, he would overcome skepticism and cynicism to embrace a career as an inspirational writer and journalist, in which he has won the hearts of millions. Guest: Philip Yancey, author of "Where the Light Fell: A Memoir" and "What?s So Amazing About Grace?"
2024-10-30
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A Map for a Lifetime of Adventure

Can one local map offer a lifetime of adventure? Alastair Humphreys embarks on a quest to discover the hidden marvels of his London neighborhood. As a National Geographic explorer, he has rowed across the Atlantic, biked around the world, and run a marathon in the Sahara?but he still loves to find the ordinary, wondrous things right under our noses. Guest: Alastair Humphreys, National Geographic Explorer and author, "Local: A Search for Nearby Nature and Wildness"
2024-10-23
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Never Look a Bear in the Eye

Unexpected wonder from Arctic encounters with beluga whales, wolves, grizzlies, and polar bears. Adventurer Jonathan Waterman shares four decades of experience on the ice, and he explores the emerging beauty of a warming ecosphere. Guest: Jonathan Waterman, author of "Into the Thaw: Witnessing Wonder Amid the Arctic Climate Crisis"
2024-10-16
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How to Save the Elusive Seahorse

A story of passion, persistence, and a barely plausible sea creature. Experts insisted that seahorses couldn't live in cold water off the coasts of Devonshire, England or Long Beach, California. Then two scuba divers proved them wrong. Guests: Neil Garrick-Maidment, Founder of The Seahorse Trust Roger Hansen, scuba instructor and retired high school teacher
2024-10-09
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Learn from Space How to Be a Good Earthling

This astronaut never took the stunning view from the Space Station for granted, even after 100 days in space. Life lessons for earthlings: behave like a crewmate, not a passenger, on this planet. That's the message Nicole Stott has been sharing ever since her return. And she gives particular insight into the healing effects of art and space on sick and traumatized children. Guest: Nicole Stott, retired NASA astronaut; author of "Back to Earth: What Life in Space Taught Me About Our Home Planet?And Our Mission to Protect It"; Founding Director of the Space for Art Foundation
2024-10-02
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Parenting Secrets from the World's Fastest Animal

When Scottish peregrine falcon chicks were stolen, George Smith used DNA to reveal the smugglers' crimes and return the birds to grateful peregrine parents. Also in this episode, we meet a California peregrine matriarch named Annie, whose engaged parenting approach has met with unusual success. Guests: Lynne Schofield and Sean Peterson, visiting biology professors at St. Olaf's College and ornithologists with Cal Falcons George Smith, Peregrine Coordinator for the Scottish Raptor Study Group
2024-09-25
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A Geneticist's Breakthrough to Faith and Hope

Bright hope for cystic fibrosis and progeria patients. Francis Collins gives a wide-ranging interview: the sequencing of the human genome; life-changing treatments for genetic diseases; how he astonished himself when he began to question his atheism; wrestling with the way his team at the NIH handled the Covid pandemic. All part of his journey on the "Road to Wisdom." Guest: Francis Collins, former Director of the National Institutes of Health; founder of BioLogos; author of "The Road to Wisdom: On Truth, Science, Faith, and Trust"
2024-09-18
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The Amazing Ability of Plants to Make Smart Decisions

Plants are sentient. It's not just animals that think. Able to choose, they detect problems, find nutrients, and defend themselves. Guest: Zoë Schlanger, science writer for The Atlantic and author of "The Light Eaters: How the Unseen World of Plant Intelligence Offers a New Understanding of Life on Earth"
2024-09-11
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A Hmong Refugee Breaks her Silence

When she realized that her father had become a voice for the scattered Hmong people, Kao Kalia Yang?who'd refused to speak English for 20 years?found the courage to do the same. Guest: Kao Kalia Yang, author of "Where Rivers Part," "The Song Poet," and "The Latehomecomer"
2024-09-04
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Finding Joy in Your Back Yard with Amy Tan

Lyme disease keeps her from driving, but the beloved author of The Joy Luck Club relishes the wonder of nature right at home. Amy Tan's insights will help you see your back yard, whatever its size, in a whole new light. Tune in as she describes the animal life in her yard?hummingbirds, owls, finches, squirrels, and even rats?as if they were players on the stage of a great opera. Guest: Amy Tan, author of The Backyard Bird Chronicles
2024-08-28
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Late in Life Comebacks and Triumphs

Yasmeen Lari was a famous Pakistani architect celebrated for her work in steel, cement, and glass. In her 60s, she turned her back on all that, and, after a massive earthquake hit her country, she began to work with locals building humble homes of adobe, mud, and bamboo. Painter Henri Matisse, when debilitated by stomach cancer in his 70s, hung up his brushes and took up scissors to continue making art. And, the Disney illustrator Tyrus Wong waited until he was 90 years old to receive full credit for the revolutionary work he'd done on "Bambi." Never say it's too late to succeed! Guest: Mo Rocca, correspondent for "CBS News Sunday Morning," author of "Roctogenarians: Late in Life Debuts, Comebacks, and Triumphs," and host of the "Mobituaries" podcast
2024-07-24
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Human Foster Parents Take Flight to Help Young Birds Migrate

Northern bald ibises vanished from the wild in Europe 400 years ago. Austrian scientists attempted to re-introduce the birds to the wild, but the birds got spectacularly lost when they were released for migration, flying east in their search for south. In this episode of Constant Wonder, learn how Johannes Fritz was inspired by a Hollywood movie, leading him to teach the bald ibises to migrate safely?by guiding them for hundreds of miles in a microlight plane. Guest: Johannes Fritz, biologist, conservationist, and founder of the Waldrappteam Photo copyright of Waldrappteam Conservation and Research
2024-07-17
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Where in the World Is Home?

Born to a Taiwanese mother and Welsh father, Jessica J. Lee grew up in suburban Ontario feeling "not quite Canadian." She attempted to set down roots in England as a young adult, but her sense of belonging was challenged by the xenophobia that followed Brexit. In this episode of Constant Wonder, we'll examine how nature helps an immigrant or transplant feel at home. Guests: Jessica J. Lee, author of "Dispersals: On Plants, Borders, and Belonging" and "A Garden Called Home" Stephanie Krzywonos, author of "Glacial Erratic," published in the Willowherb Review
2024-07-10
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Exploring the Mind of a Bee

A bee?s brain is tiny, but its one million neurons make shockingly complex connections. Individual bee and bumblebee intelligence is phenomenal, from spatial memory to communication. And would you believe that bees are likely also capable of play? Two leading researchers paint a compelling picture of just how much we?ve underestimated the individual sentience of bees. The stereotype of the bee as a robot fully dependent on the hive is far from accurate. We explore fascinating bee research involving harmonic radar, machine learning, and AI?in an effort to see the world through the eyes of a bee. Guests: Lars Chittka, professor of Sensory and Behavioral Ecology at Queen Mary University of London and author of "The Mind of a Bee" Tim Landgraf, professor of Machine Learning and Robotics at the Free University Berlin
2024-07-03
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A Scientist's Path from Grief to Wonder

Alan Townsend describes his early professional and personal life as marked by a naïve faith in the power of science to provide answers and solve problems. Townsend was already softening his early scientific dogmatism when his wife and his daughter were diagnosed with unrelated brain cancers. One survived, while the other did not, and this father and husband then had to choose how to how to put back the pieces, both of his life and of his view of a universe that once seemed to him so clear and logical. Guest: Alan Townsend, author of "This Ordinary Stardust: A Scientist's Path from Grief to Wonder"
2024-06-26
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Secret Harvests: A Farmer Discovers a Long-Lost Aunt and Heals Family Wounds

After farmer Mas Masumoto was contacted as next-of-kin for a woman he knew almost nothing about, he set about to uncover why his disabled aunt was hidden away after WWII, and his efforts began to heal wounds that were seven decades old. His story tracks the triumphs and heartaches of four generations of Japanese Americans. Guest: David Mas Masumoto, author of "Secret Harvest: A Hidden Story of Separation and the Resilience of a Family Farm" Original artwork by Patricia Wakida
2024-06-19
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