How do we navigate life within these beautiful, terrible days? In this special live episode of the Everything Happens podcast, Kate sits down with American broadcast journalist Judy Woodruff at the historic Sixth & I Synagogue in Washington, DC to discuss Kate?s latest book, Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day! Together, they explore what it means to live through the best of days, the worst of days, and all the in-betweens.

Together, they discuss:

The apology Kate wishes she would have gotten (and the moving story about when she did) How fragility unites us How can we be more empathetic towards people we disagree with

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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We become the sum of so many people throughout our lives. Kate speaks with one of the funniest people on the entire planet, comedian Samantha Bee, about the people who made her, her. What virtues did they create? What absurdity ensued? How does she think about how she impacts her own kids? 

In this conversation, Kate and Samantha discuss:

Samantha's hand of God moment that changed the trajectory of her life How the people who love us shape us into who we become What siblings or friends or partners teach us about intimacy

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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Here on the Everything Happens Podcast we don?t shy away from difficult subjects, and today?s episode tackles a topic we?ve been wanting to discuss for awhile?suicide among teens and young adults. My guest today, Dr. Pamela Morris-Perez is someone who approaches this subject with the heart of a grieving mom and the mind of a professor and practitioner who wants to make change possible and wants to teach us how we can help. This is such an important conversation on how communities can help prevent adolescent suicide.

In this conversation, Kate and Pamela discuss:

Poignant reflections on being a suicide loss survivor from a parent who is grieving the loss of her child?a topic so rarely discussed Why we say ?died by suicide? How we can prevent teen suicide?including what signs to look for, what to ask, and next steps to take when you?re concerned

In a very important way, this episode won?t create nearly as much anxiety as you think. Talking about suicide is one of the most important ways of making it less likely. So let?s find better language together, shall we?

If you need to talk to someone, call or text 988. If you are worried about someone, you too can call or text 988 to get resources. Remember: you matter. Please listen with care.

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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Chantal Kreviazuk is a Canadian singer, songwriter, composer, and pianist?her voice is the soundtrack of all Kate?s Canadian?s teenage angst. She has had an incredible career with a passion for helping others. Among many things, she?s a powerful advocate for destigmatizing mental illness?a cause near and dear to her heart after her brother struggled to get adequate care for nearly 20 years. She?s said, ?When a family member is sick, the whole family is sick.? She offers such wisdom for people who struggle with a hurting family member, or their own mental health, or for their marriages that are sometimes not as easy as we had hoped. 

In this conversation, Kate and Chantal discuss:

Setting necessary boundaries in complicated families The ups and downs of a marriage and the unexpected gifts that only reveal themselves when you commit to staying in it for the long haul A trick to starting a hard day

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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Sometimes we can fix our lives and sometimes can?t. So when self-help and self-care fall short, what do we need to turn instead? Rainn Wilson (Dwight Schrute of NBC?s The Office) says that what we need is a spiritual revolution. This conversation is rich and challenging and invites us all to think about the virtues we need to sustain a life and how we might cultivate these virtues not just for our own wellbeing but for that of the people around us. Spoiler alert: it has nothing to do with bubble baths or the latest cold plunge trend. Wouldn?t it be nice if it were that easy?  

In this conversation, Kate and Rainn discuss:

How self-care is often a form of toxic individualism The current mental health crisis and the need for spiritual tools that provide vision, mission, and purpose How making oneself useful can be an antidote to despair

A big thank you to our friends at The Fetzer Institute for making today?s conversation possible. 

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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Our lives are rarely predictable or at all in our control. Sometimes what happens to us or around us can reshape our entire trajectory. Nicky Gumbel is someone whose life was dramatically changed. He thought he was going to be a very fancy lawyer? just like everyone else in his family, but that?s not what happened. Nicky became one of the pioneers of the Alpha Course where 30 million people have been introduced to Christian faith around the world.

In this conversation, Kate and Nicky discuss:

Nicky?s reluctant conversion to Christianity How to stay open to the things we didn?t expect to happen. How age isn?t necessarily the limiter we might assume?perhaps there are opportunities or new ventures that can open up in our later third of life Why the church should be more like a hospital than a museum

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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So much of modern culture emphasizes success, hard work, and ambition. But what if we don?t conquer every problem or reach every mountaintop? How do you live with the hunger for more while letting yourself have limits and be tired and say no and shut it down too?

In this conversation, Kate and Emma Gannon discuss:

Why ambition isn?t necessarily a bad thing How Emma reacted to a season of severe burnout and what wisdom she has for all of us How bucket lists can inadvertently place us in a game we are never going to win (Psst? It?s okay to simmer down a bit) 

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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These are uncertain times for so many of us. 

But, according to writer Maggie Jackson, perhaps there is deep wisdom to be uncovered too?surprising gifts of curiosity, creative thinking, open-mindedness, and ways forward through the (often) unpredictabilities of life. 

In this conversation, Kate and Maggie Discuss:

How uncertainty might foster creativity, resilience, and mutual understanding Why we avoid ambiguity and a few small steps to help us become more comfortable with not knowing How the practices of imagination and perspective-taking can help us see the potential in others Why focusing on outcomes can close you off from picking up new information, nuance, or other peoples' perspectives Why experiences contrary to our beliefs take longer, sometimes even weeks, to process

 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

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We don?t usually have repeat guests on this podcast? except we?re making an exception for the wonderful and wise Alan Alda. Alan Alda, of course, is an award-winning actor, writer, director, and podcast host. You probably know and love him as Hawkeye on M*A*S*H or Senator Arnie Vinick on The West Wing. He is endlessly curious on just about every topic?which makes him the perfect person to talk to about empathy, learning across differences (and disagreement), and how we might age into new hobbies and careers. 

In this conversation, Alan and Kate discuss: 

 Tricks for staying curious as we age How to talk to someone you disagree with How Alan hopes to destigmatize Parkinson?s Disease The difference between empathy and compassion and how to practice these important skills

 

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When we are in deep grief, we can anticipate some of the horrible parts?the sleeplessness, the denial, the loneliness. But what about the moments of surprising lightness and joy? Moments that don?t erase the pain, but make it a bit more bearable. Academy Award-nominated actor Richard E. Grant practices finding these pockets of happiness while grieving his beloved wife. 

In this conversation, Kate and Richard talk about: 

the gritty side of caregiving how to support people in grief (even when it makes you uncomfortable) the importance of knowing and being known

 

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How do you have faith that can hold all of reality?the beautiful, the terrible, and everything in-between? The TODAY Show?s Savannah Guthrie thinks carefully about this question, especially given that her job is reporting the news every morning. 

In this conversation, Kate and Savannah discuss:

Savannah?s trick for handling difficult news every day How to adjust the dial on fear and hope when there is so much to be afraid of Making sense of the wisdom we can learn in the midst of difficult times?without saying ?everything happens for a reason? (because we would never do that to you) How we hope to be transformed by God?s love

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Do you ever look back at your childhood and go? certainly that didn?t happen like that? Where were the adults? Academy Award-winning director and childhood actress Sarah Polley describes what it was like to not be believed when she was afraid or when she wanted to stop or when she was in pain or when she was in danger. And how, as adults, we can all better protect those around us and learn to look back on our younger selves with compassion.

How hard it can be to believe our own memories or pain When kids aren?t protected by the adults in their life and how they make sense of that as adults Managing invisible illnesses How we can better support those going through chronic illness with compassion

 

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Today, we?re talking about tragicomedy. And isn?t that all of life? The absurdity. The horror. The laughter that somehow cuts through the most difficult of moments. Our guest today, Stephanie Wittles Wachs wrote a beautiful memoir called Everything is Horrible and Wonderful about the death of her brother to an accidental heroin overdose when he was 30 years old.

In this conversation, Kate and Stephanie discuss:

Loving someone with addiction Grieving a person in public Why it?s okay (and maybe necessary) to laugh in the midst of the worst moments The 6th stage of grief?the manic-investigative stage

CW: mention of suicide, drug overdose, death of a sibling

 

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Today, we have a little bonus episode to kick off your weekend. Vivek Murthy, the current U.S. Surgeon General, had so much wisdom to offer us in this week's conversation on combatting loneliness and building better relationships. In this bonus clip, he offers us a little pep talk for connection. It may be just what you need to hear.

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A basketball coach, a doctor, and a history professor walk into a bar?.

This might be the start of a great joke OR the start of an episode of Everything Happens. 

In this conversation, Kate Bowler speaks with Duke Men?s Basketball Coach, Jon Scheyer and the current US Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Together they discuss:

What is ailing Americans (especially young people)?loneliness (and why it can be so embarrassing to admit) Practical tips to connecting with others The usefulness and pitfalls of social media use

This conversation was taped live at Duke University as part of the Surgeon General?s We Are Made to Connect Tour. A huge thank you to Chris Simmons, the Office of Student Affairs, and the Office of the US Surgeon General for making this possible.

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.

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We are kicking off Season 12 of the Everything Happens Podcast (!!) with a little bonus situation because we?re having a little bonus moment. Kate?s new book HAVE A BEAUTIFUL, TERRIBLE DAY! Is available everywhere books are sold today. 

It is a book of daily meditations meant to ground whatever day you?re having?all of the ups and downs and inbetweens. And who better to talk about that with than my friend, Bob Crawford. Bob is the bass player for the wildly popular band The Avett Brothers, and someone who knows too well how terrible and beautiful life can be. 

In this conversation, Kate and Bob discuss:

How there can be a strange comfort in our worst moments How they continued despite the ongoingness of their kinds of tragedies  Why they both long for more spiritual language around living like this

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Today, we are re-airing one of our favorite episodes.  

Beth Moore has been in the limelight for almost thirty years, but during that time, she revealed very little about her formative family history. Now, this world-famous Bible teacher is ready to tell her story for the first time. 

In this episode, Kate and Beth discuss: 

How Beth?s faith offered stability during a very unpredictable and unstable childhood  The complicated grief that occurs when family members cause deep, unforgivable harm What it means to be fully known (and why that feels better than anything else)  Beth?s long-faithfulness despite experiencing rejection, pain, and hurt from her faith community

This was Beth?s first interview about her new memoir, and Kate felt so honored to get to ask this wise soul about the role of faith in lives that haven?t worked out like we thought they should. 

CW: sexual abuse, mental illness. 

Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.

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Today, we are re-airing one of our favorite episodes.  

 

Bryan Stevenson (founder of the Equal Justice Initiative) is committed to ending mass incarceration and excessive punishment, to challenging racial and economic injustice, and to protecting basic human rights for the most vulnerable among us.

In this episode, Kate and Bryan discuss: 

The hope that motivates Bryan in this slow, sometimes frustrating work of justice What it means to be a ?stonecatcher? (and why it serves both the one being condemned and the one doing the condemning) The power of forgiveness, maybe especially toward those who don?t deserve it 

CW: discussion of slavery, lynching, and other racist violence, death row

Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.

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Living in uncertainty can lead to a sense of languishing. How do we wake up from this feeling?

Katherine May has written gorgeous books like Wintering and Enchantment that help us better understand how to live wide-awake to the world around us. 

In this conversation, Kate and Katherine discuss: 

How we move from languishing to enchantment Why we need community more now than maybe ever Why we both hate gratitude journals

 

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Bozoma Saint John is a successful marketing executive, but she is also a woman who knows the rollercoaster of profound love and deep loss. She shares her hard-won wisdom and complicated grief as she faced her husband?s terminal cancer diagnosis. 

In this conversation, Kate and Bozoma: 

Give us permission to tell the whole truth (even when it isn?t a neat) Speak honestly about the complicated realities of caregiving  Discuss how our roles change within families from daughter to parent or spouse to caregiver Describe anticipatory grief 

CW: adult language, death of a child during pregnancy, death of a spouse

 

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In this conversation, Kate and Anna discuss:

How conversations might engender the intimacy we need to get by Fostering the right interpersonal and listening skills it takes to approach a difficult topic (especially when you?re feeling nervous) Best practices for responding to someone?s hard news How learning to listen might bridge differences of all kinds

What do we lose when we don?t talk about hard things? And what might we gain if we do?

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Comedian Iliza Shlesinger is refreshingly candid, especially about things many women can relate to, like the sheer exhaustion that comes from juggling life's demands (dare we say, it's like a badge of honor?), pregnancy loss?a topic that often remains in the shadows, and how our accounts of self-care really go off the rails when bubble baths become the solution to all of life?s problems. 

In this conversation, Kate and Iliza address: 

A plan to make laughter a national healthcare plan (just kidding) How comedy connects us with one another Redefining self-care into something a little more practical

This conversation is brought to you by Aspen Ideas: Health and was recorded on location in Aspen, CO.

CW: miscarriage

 

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How do you think about faith and hope when your prayers aren?t answered? What about when they are? 

Steph and her husband, Rivs, have the kind of story you might see in a blockbuster movie. Rivs was a professional endurance athlete who was suddenly put on life support with a mysterious lung disease. But then a confluence of shocking events occurred to get him the care he needed to survive.

Steph grew up as part of the Church of Latter Day Saints, a faith that believed that if she prayed hard enough, miracles would happen. But then her dad died when she was 14. So how does she understand faith and hope and miracles after Rivs' survival? 

In this conversation, Kate and Steph discuss:

    How do you talk to kids honestly about life and death and hope?     How pain is a conduit for empathy      How to allow things to just suck and not feel pressure to find any brightsides     How to think about faith, hope, and miracles without idolizing certainty 

Steph is someone who knows intimately that life sometimes just happens and that we have to learn to live alongside all of that pain and that joy and that love that somehow coexists.

CW: cancer, death of a parent

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Don?t Waste Your Life. Savor Every Moment. Live in the Present. 

Culture has a lot of prescriptions for how to live a good life. But what if we don?t know where to start? Writer and researcher Catherine Price started to notice how much time she was spending on her phone and how the habit was sucking joy from her life. Instead, she wanted to learn how to have fun again. What is fun? How do you have it? Can you become a more fun person? Catherine debunks the myths around what it means to have fun?especially when we think we?re too tired, too careworn, or too old?and gives us a little homework to start today. 

In this conversation, Kate and Catherine discuss: 

How to break up with your phone (and why we turn to our phones in the first place) How to create more opportunities for fun in the midst of regular days and too-full lives The simple practice Catherine uses to bring more joy to her days

 

Everything Happens is brought to you by Cologuard®. Are you 45 or older? Start screening for colon cancer with Cologuard, an effective and noninvasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk for colon cancer. Rx only. Learn more at Cologuard.com/everything

 

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Margaret Renkl calls herself a backyard naturalist?but not because she has any particular expertise. From the birds in her yard to the bugs in her flower beds, she has learned the art of attention. Nature has taught her a speed at which to live, to hope, to stave off despair. 

In this conversation, Kate and Margaret discuss:

        What we miss when we imagine we have to drive somewhere else to experience nature, instead of noticing it around us         What birds teach us about what means to be a good mother         How to learn to love even the mosquitoes and wasps         Where Margaret experiences moments of holiness         How we might all start to be besotted by beauty

Perhaps, we can borrow some of Margaret?s innate curiosity together and see how it might open us up to wonder and love and connectedness once again. 

 

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We may think we understand people. Where they are coming from. Why they act the way they act. ? But what if we?re wrong? 

New York Times columnist David Brooks? family motto was ?Think Yiddish, Act British.? He knew how to keep a tight lid on his emotions, which could be useful? until he realized that he would need to learn a lot more about the role of empathy to love the people around him. Now, he?s sharing the result of his curiosity on how we might get better at really knowing people. Perhaps that simple skill can help combat the loneliness, despair, and the divides in our social fabric.

In this conversation, Kate and David discuss: 

How to love people with severe depression How to see people as beloved children of God Practicing intimacy and empathy The difference between illuminators and diminishers

CW: suicide

 

Everything Happens is brought to you by Cologuard®. Are you 45 or older? Start screening for colon cancer with Cologuard, an effective and noninvasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk for colon cancer. Rx only. Learn more at Cologuard.com/everything

 

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So many of us have experienced a before? and an after. 

My friend, the lovely writer Clover Stroud, had her before and after at a young age. When she was 16, her mom was in a horse-riding accident and suffered a serious brain injury that left her severely disabled until she died? 22 years later. The suddenness of that accident layered with the ongoingness of that level of caregiving bonded Clover and her big sister, Nell in remarkable ways.  Then, Nell unexpectedly died. 

The grief of losing her sister is captured in Clover?s beautiful book, The Red of My Blood?a book that captures the visceral feelings of grief. The pain. The beauty. The staying wide awake to the life that?s in front of us despite it all. The ?how do I go on parenting with all this grief?? The ?give me a sign? feeling we crave when our loved ones are gone.

In this conversation, Kate and Clover discuss: 

Kids who have to grow up too fast due to tragedy and who we become because of it How some people have to live in ongoing trauma or extended grief due to caregiving or chronic illness The unexpected glimmers of beauty that can sustain us amid the ache of loss Why we need rituals to hold us together during deep grief

Kate went to visit Clover at her farm outside of Oxford in England to talk about the things in our lives that almost destroy us but also form us in some remarkable ways too. 

CW: cancer, traumatic brain injury, horse accident, death of a sibling

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.

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Scripture can become a weapon in the hands of the ultra-certain. As if every pain or suffering is part of ?God?s divine plan.? So how should we understand and apply the Bible to our real lives with our real-life problems? 

NT Wright, a New Testament scholar, is a trusted expert to help us understand what truths resound across time and circumstance and which don?t. In this conversation, Kate and Tom dig in especially on Romans 8:28 which is the Pauline version of EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. Is that what Paul intended to say? Is there maybe another, more life-giving way to interpret it instead? 

Kate and NT Wright also discuss:

The importance of lament as a response to the human condition Why we have such a low tolerance for uncertainty Which scripture to turn to when life comes apart (and which to avoid)  What our response should be to others who are in pain or experiencing tragedy

This is a bit of a Bible-nerd out, but I would trust no one else to help us better make sense of where is God when we?re suffering than NT Wright. 

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.

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How do you sustain a life of service?especially when your job costs you something? Angela Williams has dedicated her life to advocating for others. She joined the military. She became a lawyer. She became a minister. Wait, now she runs one of the largest service organizations in the world, the United Way, as its CEO? Incredible. 

But what?s behind all this is a story about service. About what it takes to stay in the long, slow work of community. You will believe when she says that it?s hard?and it?s good. At the same time. 

In this conversation, Kate and Angela discuss: 

Why we need community now more than ever The case for interdependence and why it's so important to give up on individualism  How to sustain a life of service (hint: it has something to do with joy)

CW: cancer, caregiving

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.

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What does it really mean to ?survive? when what you survive? lingers? Emi Nietfeld went from being homeless to graduating from Harvard. But the rags-to-riches story isn?t ever completely true. It skips over the hardest parts?complicated families, long-term trauma on brains and bodies, the ways we wish we could go back and undo what has been done.  

This is an incredible story about resilience?what it is, and what it isn?t. You?re going to love the way she talks about the power of her efforts. And the ways she learned to get back up, but should have never had to. 

In this conversation, Emi and Kate discuss: 

the cost of resilience the downsides of relying on the individual therapeutic to solve every problem (and why we should be looking for ways to create systemic or family solutions too) how hope and ambition can pull you toward a future the complexities of navigating the value of success when weighed against the lasting impact of trauma

Emi carefully interrogates what it really means to ?overcome? anything. It makes us all feel less alone when we can say, honestly, that some things can be conquered and some things conquer us. 

CW: brief mentions of suicidal ideation, eating disorders, self-harm, adverse childhood, hoarding, trans issues

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.

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How hard is it to be a parent today? After a pandemic? With social media breathing down our necks? It?s so hard! Navigating the delicate balance between granting independence and providing guidance can be daunting as a parent. 

Dr. Lisa Damour (New York Times bestselling author of The Emotional Lives of Teenagers) has dedicated her life to unraveling the intricacies of adolescence and offering practical, heartfelt advice.

In this conversation, Lisa and Kate:

offer a more reassuring definition of mental health (hint: it?s about having the right-sized feelings that fit the situation at hand and managing those feelings effectively).  emphasize the importance of being a steady presence in kids? lives, as well as offer scripts to try with your own teenager give language to what parents might be feeling if they missed this kind of parenting themselves

 CW: Mental Health awareness 

***

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Comedians have the ability to be unsparingly honest in ways that buck all cultural norms. It?s a truth-telling that so many of us crave. 

Cue Rob Delaney. 

Rob is a comedian, actor, writer, and director. His memoir, A Heart That Works is an unsparing account of the death of his beautiful son, Henry. Rob lives in London with his family where Kate visited him for this honest and hilarious conversation. 

Kate and Rob discuss:

The importance of finding people who really understand what you?re feeling What not to say to people whose kids have died How tragic loss exiles you to a planet where only those who understand grief live The ways we hope grief metabolizes in us and transforms us into empathetic, heart-open kinds of people

Rob wants us all to understand that if the unthinkable happens, our hearts still beat so strong in truth and love. 

CW: hard-earned explicit language of a bereaved parent, death of parent, Suicide, death of a child

***

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The TODAY Show?s Jenna Bush Hager sits down for a wide-ranging conversation with Kate Bowler. Together, they share about the importance of family and intergenerational relationships (Jenna shares such tender stories about her grandparents), how they hope to let their kids make mistakes and be met with grace, and how they both (try to) find beauty in ordinary, regular days and regular problems. 

In this conversation, Kate and Jenna discuss:

How to model openness and empathy across difference (even when people really, really disagree) Why they want to raise their kids to be curious and independent How the love of others makes us brave?brave enough to make mistakes (and why that?s okay)

Kate visited Jenna in New York City for this conversation. And Jenna is just as lovely and generous of spirit as you?d imagine.

CW: fertility issues; Alzheimer?s 

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Are you living your best life now? Not always? GREAT, ME NEITHER. 

My name is Kate Bowler. I?m a professor, speaker, podcast host and New York Times bestselling author. Which makes it sound like I believe in living your ?best life.? Don?t worry?I don?t. 

I study the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. And hobbies are wasted on me because I?d rather be talking to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens. 

A new season of *fantastic* conversation starts on September 5th. 

Mark your calendar. Make sure you?re subscribed. You won?t want to miss this. 

EVERYTHING HAPPENS is available everywhere you get your podcasts. 

***
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How do you live knowing life can just come undone at a moment?s notice? In the span of a few months, Tig Notaro received three life-threatening illnesses, unexpectedly lost her mom, and went through a breakup. Tig is a brilliant comedian whose real life informs her comedy and has a lot to teach us about living honestly in the face of reality. 

In this conversation, Kate and Tig discuss: 

Tig?s ?hands-off? parents and her journey of self-discovery, eventually uncovering her talents in the entertainment industry and making her a respected figure in comedy How Tig Notaro's family of ?real characters,? served as an abundant source of comedic inspiration in her life (including the best graveyard story ever) How to live alongside fear of what you know could actually happen?

CW: cancer, death of parent

***

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What makes a good life? How would you answer that question? Not just life in the abstract? but what makes YOUR life good? Professor Miroslav Volf teaches a popular class at Yale University which guides students through these kinds of questions and might help us all think a little more deeply about what our lives are adding up to be.

In this conversation, Kate and Miroslav discuss:  

Why just practicing the habits of a good life doesn?t make a life meaningful (hint: we need to be thinking about the ends) Importance of asking questions we don?t always have the answers to How to define joy What does flourishing look like when we feel like we?re ?losing?  How joy and suffering can coexist

 

On a personal note, this is a special interview for Kate because Miroslav was also her professor at Yale and someone she looks up to with joy and admiration.

***

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Our most precious relationships are often our most complicated, aren?t they? Poet and bestselling author Kwame Alexander wrote an honest book of poems and essays that name the difficult and beautiful and heart-wrenching conversations we have (or should be having) with the people we love and with the ones who love us. 

In this conversation, Kwame and Kate discuss: 

How we can?t outrun our grief How our own parents love us in the ways they want to be loved, but maybe not in the ways we need?and how we find our ways back to each other The desire to share with our kids how we love, where we fail, where we tried, and who we were before we were their parent

 

CW: death of parent, divorce

***

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How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on Friday Night Lights or as Samantha in HBO?s Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom. 

In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss:

How we can be built from the outside in through our friendships and how our friends become our chosen family How anger tells us that a boundary has been crossed The unfinished ways people love us?reconciling our complicated childhoods with the love we feel for each another How Minka has processed her difficult childhood through a lens of love and grace The way Minka?s mom was changed by her cancer diagnosis, and how once they found their way to one another again, there could never, ever be enough time

 

CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect

***

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Some people are the LEAN IN sort. They lean into your unsolvable problems, show up on your impossible days, and walk with you all the way to the end. How do we become them? How do we create belonging when the people we love experience such uncertainty? Practical theologian and mental health nurse John Swinton knows a thing or two about this kind of love.  

In this conversation, Kate and John discuss: 

The importance of learning to be present for people with intellectual disabilities, dementia, or in mental health crises  How two places that should be known as places of belonging?the church and the hospital?have become difficult for fragile people? and how we might begin to make these institutions better A theology of hope we might all be able to sign up for (Spoiler: Hope is a long story.)  How love moves at a certain speed, so we all might need to slow down a bit

***

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Maggie Smith (poet and author of books like Keep Moving and You Could Make This Place Beautiful) chronicles the aftermath of a painful divorce she didn?t see coming. How do we raise our kids in the wake of such change? And how do we reconcile who we are and who we are becoming? 

In this conversation, Maggie and Kate discuss:

How to support someone going through divorce The metaphor of nesting dolls as how we contain who we were before (and how our befores and afters might not be as dramatic as we thought) Speaking honestly with our children about the beauty and tragedy of the world Why tragedies are not worth the ?lessons? that we might learn from them

CW: divorce

***

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What happens when the people we built our lives around stop needing us? Or when we have to pick between our meaningful careers or our family? And what do we do with the ambiguous grief that comes with every expected and unexpected change? Today, Kate takes an honest look at juggling the demands on our time and on our heart with NPR?s Mary Louise Kelly.

Kate and Mary Louise discuss: 

Debunking the women can ?have it all? paradigm and what happens when the things we love come into conflict The limitations of gratitude How our callings pull us into a wider sense of who we belong to How to savor (and mourn) all the lasts as your children grow older

 

This may be a conversation about parenting, but I think there might be something in here for anyone who wonders: Who am I as my relationships change? Can I still find myself there?

***

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How should you show up for people in grief? What do you say? What should you do? Why is it that beauty can exist alongside deep suffering? What can be said at funerals when the person who died was complicated? These are just a few of the questions I wanted to ask Steve Leder?a bestselling author and a rabbi who has presided over a thousand funerals with wisdom and kindness. 

In this conversation, we discuss:  

The mysterious way beauty can be found the closer we inch to death (our own or someone else?s). The importance of just showing up. And being you.  Honoring someone?s memory at the same time being truthful about how human they were The peace that comes from acknowledging that life is full of dualities  ?If you have to go through hell, don?t come out empty handed? (Steve Leder), but no, the lessons were never, ever worth the pain

CW: suicide, adult language

***

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Historian and Canadian politician Michael Ignatieff explores the cracks in our seamless worldviews? or at least the worldviews we thought were seamless until we?re faced with tragedies of all kinds. In this wide-ranging exploration, Kate and Michael probe humanity's enduring attempt to console ourselves and construct meaning from our pain.

In this conversation, Kate and Michael discuss:

Why truth and trust are so important when it comes to finding meaning in our pain The difference between comfort and consolation  The limits of stoicism and hyper-futurism  What it means to be hopeful The importance of community through pain and suffering

 

Michael does not denigrate anyone?s attempt for comfort, but asks us to look carefully at the consolation that lasts. He asks: What is consolation? And why do we all crave that practice of meaning-making?

***

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Supermodel Paulina Porizkova has been in the public eye all her life. But it has been a rollercoaster of soaring successes and deep heartache. Grief and pain comes to us all, and in those moments, we need our shared humanity (and not our super-anythingness) to build a bridge back to others.

In this tender conversation, Kate and Paulina discuss:

How to show up to friends in unsolvable pain Why ?what doesn?t kill you will make you stronger? is just plain wrong Why the assumptions we make about one another are untrue 

CW: Spicy language

***

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The Reverend Tom Long wrote the book on funerals. No, really. When grief threatens to swallow us whole, Tom reminds us of our place in a bigger story of hope and faith, of interdependence and the importance of community. He describes the necessity of ritual to pull us into a wider, truer story than the trite version our culture likes to tell.

In this warm conversation (trust me! You will laugh!), Kate and Tom discuss: 

What it means to be called into emotionally-expensive professions (jobs where you decide to really care!)  The importance of truth-telling at a funeral Seeing people through the prism of God?s love for them (more specifically?through the lens of their baptism) Why people die at all and what happens with all the love we have for one another (hint: it?s never, ever, ever lost) The importance of the rituals we create to walk people through death and dying

No one likes to talk about funerals, but this one is a must-listen. 

***

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Over thirty years ago, Elaine Pagels? young son and husband died within the same year. In this tender conversation, Kate and Elaine discuss surviving the aftermath of such devastation, the painful explanations religion often offers, and how we love and keep loving even after so much tragedy. 

Together, they discuss:

The need for connection to others during grief Religion?s often painful and punitive explanations for suffering (and why they aren?t helpful or complete) Why parents often feel like they?ve ?failed? when a child dies How suffering pulls us closer to mystery 

This episode is for someone who has ever had the thought ?haven?t I suffered enough?? Elaine and Kate are trusted companions in a life that hasn?t turned out like we thought it should. 

CW: death of a child, death of a spouse

***

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A big thank you to Jed Meyers for contributing his beautiful poem to today's episode.

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Every problem New York Times columnist Frank Bruni faced had a simple fix. Doctors offered reasonable solutions for reasonable problems. Preventative care guaranteed future health. That is, until he woke up one morning without vision in his eye. This experience forced him to rethink how much of life is in our control and how to live fully in the face of unfixable problems.

In this conversation, Kate and Frank discuss: 

Letting go of the idea that life is a series of choices and learning that there are things we can?t fix How the lacquered lives we see on social media deny us the fuller picture of each other?s problems Importance of finding the things that light up our lives and taking the hard stuff bird by bird, vine by vine. 

***

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Beth Moore has been in the limelight for almost thirty years, but during that time, she revealed very little about her formative family history. Now, this world-famous Bible teacher is ready to tell her story for the first time. 

In this episode, Kate and Beth discuss: 

How Beth?s faith offered stability during a very unpredictable and unstable childhood  The complicated grief that occurs when family members cause deep, unforgivable harm What it means to be fully known (and why that feels better than anything else)  Beth?s long-faithfulness despite experiencing rejection, pain, and hurt from her faith community

 

This was Beth?s first interview about her new memoir, and Kate felt so honored to get to ask this wise soul about the role of faith in lives that haven?t worked out like we thought they should. 

CW: sexual abuse, mental illness

***

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Welcome to SEASON TEN of the Everything Happens Podcast!

I started this podcast as a way to create language and community around some of life's most painful moments. I was so overwhelmed by the question of how do we live in the after? After a diagnosis, after a death, after a divorce, after something that changes our lives or takes it apart.

I had just been diagnosed with stage four colon cancer and I was only 35. I had a two year old at home with this giant lovey Disney eyes, and I had the job that I loved, and then suddenly, I had a picture of a future that was just never going to be. So I wanted to know, like, how do we do this? How do you find joy and hope and love even after life comes undone? And after years of treatment and years of uncertainty, I guess I realized somewhere along the way that this wasn't really a one and done kind of question. This is the sort of work that evolves over time as life continues to contract and expand and break our hearts and then put us back together all over again. And so thank you for being the people that I've had along the way. These are not, of course, the conversations anybody really wants to have, but we do, you and me and this gorgeous community here.

We have so many great episodes coming to you for SEASON TEN. We're going to be talking to tender and wise and funny people about what they've discovered during their before and afters. People like Beth Moore on long faithfulness when life really doesn't work out the way you thought it did. Mary Louise Kelly on empty-nesting and rediscovering yourself after the kids leave. Rabbi Steve Leder on how tragedies teach us and how we can just see beauty somehow. Plus SO MANY MORE.

New episodes coming your way every Tuesday this Spring.

This episode also includes a conversation between Kate and her producer, Jessica Richie about their new book of blessings, The Lives We Actually Have.

***

THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releases TODAY). Learn more, here.

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As we approach the New Year, we might need a minute to look backward. What even happened this year? Who was I? What went well? What didn't? Before we start making those New Year?s Resolutions, maybe we could have a second of honesty together.  

This week is about celebrating the fact that alongside some of our painful, horrifying moments, we did experience moments of levity and joy and pure delight. In our personal lives, in our inner circle, during our 9-5s, and one real Zinger bonus round that really takes the cake. 

 In this bonus crossover episode, Kate and Kelly Corrigan discuss: 

Their own personal happies, including the joy of birthdays as a reset button  How being reabsorbed into other people?s stories and problems makes us feel less alone  The satisfaction that comes from totally immersing yourself in learning, what Kelly refers to as intellectual humility

***

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No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available in PAPERBACK. Order your copy, today.

Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.

Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.

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