What does the Bible really mean by modesty, and why have Christian conversations about clothing so often produced shame, especially for women and teenage girls?

Dr. Sandra Richter is a renown biblical scholar, author, and professor of Old Testament at Westmont College. The 2nd edition of her killer book, The Epic of Eden, releases in November 2026. Sandy is also a faithful mom, and one of her daughters, Noël Tsoukalas, joins us in this conversation about modesty. Noël is a Pop singer-songwriter and worship leader. She made a name for herself on Season 21 of American Idol, where she received a golden ticket and three “yeses” from celebrity judges Katy Perry, Lionel Richie, and Luke Bryan. Check out her music on Spotify!

00:00:00 “Your Outfit Is Causing My Husband to Stumble”

00:06:55 Sandy & Noel on Modesty and Purity Culture

00:12:50 How the Church Has Mishandled Modesty

00:18:10 Sandy’s Experience with Christian Dress Codes

00:21:26 When Modesty Culture Makes Girls’ Bodies “Public Property”

00:27:21 The Billy Graham Rule and Women in Church Leadership

00:32:21 What Does Biblical Modesty Actually Look Like?

00:36:18 Body Shaming and Modesty in the Church

00:38:26 Teaching Girls to Set Boundaries with Church Leaders

00:42:51 Should Churches Have Dress Codes?

00:51:26 Body Types and the Subjectivity of Modesty

00:53:36 What Does Modesty Look Like for Men?

00:56:28 Biblical Modesty Is About More Than Sexuality

00:59:12 Double Standards for Men and Women at Christian Camps

01:01:41 How Should Christian Camps Handle Swimsuit Dress Codes?

01:06:15 Does Modesty Culture Discourage Women from Ministry?

01:08:30 Social Media, Body Image, and Female Musicians

01:11:30 Healing from Shame Around Modesty and Purity Culture

01:14:05 Who Should Talk to Women About Their Clothing?

01:15:20 Forrest Frank and Cory Asbury make the internet stumble

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Colleen Ramser is an EMDR-certified licensed professional counselor (LPC) who specializes in trauma, particularly the effects of spiritual abuse, domestic abuse, and complex trauma. She’s a survivor of spiritual trauma, which she talks about in the show, and she’s the author of the book The Shattered Soul: Restoring Wholeness and Rebuilding Your Faith After Spiritual Trauma, which addresses a lot of the things we discuss in this fasciainating conversation.

00:00 Why Spiritual Trauma Can Make Faith Feel Impossible

00:30 Introduction

02:52 What Qualifies as Trauma?

05:49 Trauma vs. PTSD

07:46 Resilience, Support, and Post-Traumatic Growth

17:06 What Is Spiritual Trauma?

21:00 Colleen’s Experience with Spiritual Abuse

31:18 Signs and Symptoms of Spiritual Trauma

32:48 How Spiritual Trauma Affects Pastors and Church Leaders

39:14 Recognizing and Treating Spiritual Trauma

41:20 Healing Trauma and Rebuilding Your Faith

46:06 Complex Spiritual Trauma vs. Theological Disagreement

49:46 Is the Term “Spiritual Abuse” Overused?

57:30 Are Churches Getting Better at Addressing Abuse?

63:24 Jesus, Power, and the Fruit of the Spirit

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Dr Sandra Glahn has spend more than a quarter of a century working as a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary. She's the cofounder of the Visual Museum of Women in Christianity and the author of more than 25 books--her latest being A Woman's Place Is in the Story. In this episode, we discuss several women in the Old Testament and how the biblical narrator frames their stories. In our "extra innings" conversation, we discuss the question: "What do Egalitarians and Complementarians get wrong about the women in leadership debate." 

00:00:00 Introduction

00:02:56 How Biblical Narrators Shape the Story

00:04:39 Word Repetition in the Bible: Why It Matters

00:05:29 Tamar in Genesis 38: Hero or Villain?

00:11:32 Are All Women in the Bible Meant to Be Role Models?

00:12:08 Judah and Tamar: A Biblical Character Transformation

00:16:44 Shiphrah and Puah: The Midwives Who Defied Pharaoh

00:21:05 Why Every Christian Should Know Shiphrah and Puah

00:22:17 Did Moses Challenge Patriarchy in the Old Testament?

00:29:57 Abigail in 1 Samuel: Wisdom, Courage, and Leadership

00:36:34 Was Ancient Israel Really a Patriarchy?

00:39:51 Elisha and the Shunammite Woman: A Surprising Biblical Story

00:43:17 Job's Daughters and Women's Inheritance Rights

00:48:15 Why Reading the Full Biblical Story Changes Everything

00:50:10 Jezebel: Justice, Power, and the Biblical Narrative

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Max Lucado is a pastor with decades of ministry experience and one of the most bestselling Christian authors of all time, who’s written more than 40 books that have sold around 150 million copies and have been translated in 56 languages. His latest book is Unbreakable Courage: Strong Faith in an Age of Anxiety, Chaos, and Exhaustion.

Chapters 

00:07:42 Revisiting 2020: Covid and BLM

00:13:30 The Backlash to Max “Going Woke” 

00:16:41 Responding to Generational Pain with Compassion

00:20:55 Tips for Good Writing 

00:25:56 The Impact of AI on Writing 

00:27:58 AI, Plagiarism and Christian Integrity

00:35:21 Is the World Really Getting Worse?

00:40:11 Over Exposure to Negative Information in the World

00:43:54 What Elijah Can Teach us about navigating the chaos of our world 

00:49:01 How God Can Meet us in Our Isolation

00:51:19 Battling with Sinful Thoughts 

00:54:09 Was Ahab Elijah’s Enemy? 

00:55:07 Elijah Was Human: Hope for Ordinary Christians

00:56:54 Does Prayer Accomplish Anything? 

01:00:31 Does Prayer Really Change Anything?

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Max Lucado is a pastor with decades of ministry experience and one of the most bestselling Christian authors of all time, who’s written more than 40 books that have sold around 150 million copies and have been translated in 56 languages. His latest book is Unbreakable Courage: Strong Faith in an Age of Anxiety, Chaos, and Exhaustion.

Chapters 

00:07:42 Revisiting 2020: Covid and BLM

00:13:30 The Backlash to Max “Going Woke” 

00:16:41 Responding to Generational Pain with Compassion

00:20:55 Tips for Good Writing 

00:25:56 The Impact of AI on Writing 

00:27:58 AI, Plagiarism and Christian Integrity

00:35:21 Is the World Really Getting Worse?

00:40:11 Over Exposure to Negative Information in the World

00:43:54 What Elijah Can Teach us about navigating the chaos of our world 

00:49:01 How God Can Meet us in Our Isolation

00:51:19 Battling with Sinful Thoughts 

00:54:09 Was Ahab Elijah’s Enemy? 

00:55:07 Elijah Was Human: Hope for Ordinary Christians

00:56:54 Does Prayer Accomplish Anything? 

01:00:31 Does Prayer Really Change Anything?

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Be sure to check out our “Extra Innings” conversation where we discuss what the Old Testament actually says about sex outside of marriage. Surprisingly, there’s no explicit verse in the OT that forbids it. To listen to the full conversation, become a member of the TITR community at https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw

Dr. Dru Johnson (PhD, University of St. Andrews) is Templeton Senior Research Fellow and director of the Abrahamic Theistic Origins Project at Wycliffe Hall, University of Oxford. He is also a visiting professor of religion at Hope College, director of the Center for Hebraic Thought, editor of the Routledge Interdisciplinary Perspectives on Biblical Criticism series, host of The Biblical Mind podcast, and cohost of the OnScript podcast. And, he’s written a bunch of awesome books including his recent book Understanding Biblical Law: Skills for Thinking With and Through Torah, which forms the basis of our fascinating conversation. 

00:00:00 Introduction00:01:36 What Is the Old Testament Law?00:04:00 Does "the Law" Mean the Ten Commandments or the Entire Old Testament?00:06:24 The Law Is More Than Rules: Understanding Biblical Law00:08:52 Does "Eye for an Eye" Mean Literal Retribution?00:14:28 Reading Old Testament Laws as Principles, Not Just Rules00:18:07 "You Shall Not Murder" vs. "You Shall Not Kill"00:22:49 How to Learn Ethics from Bible Stories00:24:53 Does the Bible Endorse Polygamy?00:25:58 Why the Laws of Moses Are Different from Other Ancient Laws00:28:11 Moses, David, and Other Morally Complex Bible Stories00:33:44 Are Women Portrayed Better Than Men in the Bible?00:38:13 How to Apply Biblical Narratives Today00:41:25 Biblical Discernment vs. Looking for Easy Answers00:45:21 How Should Christians Read Difficult Old Testament Laws?00:51:13 Why Were Old Testament Punishments So Severe?00:57:17 Restorative Justice in Ancient Israel: Why Were There No Prisons?01:00:31 The Sons of Korah and Other Difficult Old Testament Judgments

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Dr. Alison Cook is a therapist, psychologist of religion, bestselling author, and host of the top-ranked The Best of You podcast. She holds degrees from Dartmouth College (BA), Denver Seminary (MA), and the University of Denver (PhD). Alison has spent over two decades helping people move from feeling disconnected to feeling secure, grounded, and loved. She’s the author of four books including her most recent book: The Secure Soul: Finding Inner Strength and Connection When Trust Doesn’t Come Easy, which forms the foundation of our conversation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1400352606?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback

Time Stamps

00:00 Introduction

02:06 Splitting time between Wyoming and Boston

07:35 Attachment Theory Explained

10:35 How Childhood Trauma Shapes Adult Relationships

18:01 What About People That Didn’t Experience Trauma?

22:47 Does everyone have some kind of attachment issue? 

23:59 Why the Church Often Misunderstands Self-Care

24:37 The Problem with Secular Self-Care Culture 

25:22 Avoidant Attachment: First Steps

30:09 Preston Gets Live Therapy

34:00 Thinkers vs. Feelers 

39:04 Core Memories and Emotional Healing

46:43 Getting to Know our own Souls 

48:06 Can Christians Trust Psychology?

50:29 How Your Parents Shape Your View of God

53:41 Common Unaddressed Issues: Shame or Blame

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Dr. Daniel Bannoura (Ph.D. Notre Dame University) is a Palestinian theologian and Director of Public Engagement at the Bethlehem Institute for Peace & Justice. Daniel received his PhD degree in Qur'anic Studies from the University of Notre Dame. His research focuses on the history and redaction of the Qur'an, Christian-Muslim relations, and Palestinian theology. Daniel also host of “Across the Divide”, a podcast that provides a space for thoughtful conversations about Palestine-Israel through the lens of faith and peace-making. Check out the Church at the Crossroads conference in Atlanta, Nov 5-7, 2026 and the Christ at the Checkpoint Conference in Bethlehem, Dec 27th-31st, 2026. 

Time Stamps: 

00:00:00 Intro

00:02:29 Why a Palestinian Christian Researches the Qur’an

00:05:04 Did Muhommed Actually Exist?

00:11:43 Christian assumptions about Muslims in Gaza 

00:16:00 Double Standards for Gazan Christian Deaths 

00:16:48 Why are People Still Dying during the Ceasefire?

00:18:53 The Debate Around Using the Term “Genocide” 

00:23:49 The Shrinking Borders Around Gaza 

00:25:24 UN Report on Children being Targeted in Gaza

00:27:36 Life Expectancy, Malnutrition, and the Hidden Death Toll

00:29:16 Why the World Knows but Hasn’t Stopped it 

00:45:54 The Shifting Political Landscape

00:51:08 Upcoming Conferences in Bethlehem and Atlanta 

00:56:34 What can the Church do? 

01:04:38 An Appeal to Christian Leaders

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If you want to listen to our "Extra Innings" conversation about whether marriage is necessary for men to be truly masculine, head over to patreon.com/theologyintheraw and become a member of the Theology in the Raw community.

Dr. Zachary Wagner (DPhil, Oxford) is an author, ordained minister, and New Testament scholar. He’s written two books that deal with masculinity, male sexuality, and virtue: Non-Toxic Masculinity: Recovering Healthy Male Sexuality and his most recent Men of Virtue: How the Fruit of the Spirit Forms Male Character in the Modern World. He is currently pursuing publication for his DPhil thesis, as well as a further writing and research projects on Christianity and Stoicism. Learn more about Zachary on his website.

Time Stamps:

00:00 Introduction to Part 2

01:59 Defining “Biblical” masculinity

03:37 What do people mean when the call their view “biblical”?

04:29 How much of the Bible is directed specifically to men?

07:22 Cultural Norms vs Universal Mandates around Gender

10:59 Biology: The impact of Testosterone

19:42 How Important are Gender Roles for Discipleship?

21:34 How Jesus “rewrites” Masculinity

25:19 Do husbands have a moral mandate to be the primary breadwinner?

29:03 Post Industrial careers and gender

38:02 Do men have a moral obligation to protect women?

49:29 Christian masculinity and non-violence

52:27 Does the Bible mandate Chivalry?

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Join the Theology in the Raw Community on Patreon to listen to our Extra Innings Segment about whether or not you need to be married to truly be masculine. You’ll also get bonus episodes, Zoom meet ups, and more! 

What does it mean to be a man? It's a question that's generating plenty of heat online, but not much clarity. In this first episode of a two-part series on biblical masculinity, Preston sits down with Seth Troutt to separate what Scripture actually teaches from the messages coming from the online manosphere.

Before we can have a meaningful conversation about masculinity and femininity, Seth argues that we first need to understand the difference between man and God. From there, the conversation explores what it means to bear God's image as men and women, the role of humility, responsibility, chivalry, provision, and the significance of the real physical differences between the sexes.

Seth Troutt is the Teaching Pastor at Ironwood Church in the Phoenix metro area. He holds a doctorate focused on digital technology, Generation Z, and gender identity, and writes and teaches on the intersection of theology, technology, and culture. He’s also the author of Authentic Masculinity: Leaving Behind the Counterfeits for God’s Design which is available now. 

Part 2 of this series, featuring Zachary Wagner, releases next week.

Time Stamps

00:00:00 Introduction

00:06:15 What is Biblical Masculinity?

00:07:58 What Andrew Tate and the Manosphere get wrong

00:14:48 Is Chivalry a calling for men only? 

00:16:41 Examples of powerful women from Scripture 

00:21:32 Cultural expectations versus scriptural mandates for men and women

00:23:45 Physical differences between men and women (and the exceptions)

00:25:52 Should men be providers? Culture vs. Biblical mandate 

00:28:43 Should Mothers of young children have jobs? 

00:31:33 Why discipline is important for young men 

00:33:28 Should certain careers be just for men?

00:38:23 Do Christian men have a moral mandate to protect women? 

00:41:19 Why did god make men and women differently? 

00:45:50 Physical Differences do not mean “better” 

00:50:41 Nick Fuentes, Andrew Tate, real influence? 

00:58:01 Pastoring in this weird cultural moment 

01:02:28 Should Pastors podcast? 

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Join the Theology in the Raw Patreon community to watch the full episode! For as little as $5 per month, you'll get these bonus Q&A's, as well as Extra Innings segments, Zoom conversations, and our brand new At Home with The Sprinkles videos.

Here's the full list of Questions:

00:00 Intro00:36 How do you think purity culture has affected asexuality among Christians? Have you done any study of asexuality? And if not, would you consider it?04:33 Several young people in my life are doubting Jesus' divinity. What are some of the best thoughts you have on helping them see & understand Jesus' divine nature? And what resources would you recommend those of us in conversation with these young people?13:04 How would you respond to someone who says that everything is God's will and God never makes mistakes, when something really bad happens?15:54 If same-sex attraction is not a sin, then what is it? And how should Christians relate to it in their own lives?18:07 How do I help my Conservative friends know why I'm not "fixing" my lgtbq friends' orientation and am first loving them and helping them experience Jesus? 21:03 How can lay people practically ensure the strength of our research matches the strength of our convictions/passions?24:32 How do Pastors of small and financially struggling church make income to live? Balance of trusting God’s calling and provision vs quitting ministry? 27:20 Rom 12:18 says if possible live in peace with everyone: how do you go about sharing church community with broken relationships that can’t be reconciled?29:54 What have you seen that helps people to become formed and developed as disciples of Jesus in different seasons of life— 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s etc? 36:45 Recently there’s been renewed conversation online about the dangers of Islam, Sharia Law, and Muslims taking over the United States. Is this just fear mongering? Should someone speak out against that? 47:06 Rachel Held Evans had a phrase she used to say: "On the days when I believe...", implying there were days when she struggled to believe the beautiful but crazy and often bewildering story of Jesus and the gospel. If there are days when you struggle to believe, what do you do? 51:29 How do you reconcile the Biblical account of creation with the evidence for pre-human hominids? Is there any way to believe in a literal Adam and Eve without disbelieving all the evidence for pre-human hominids?54:46 In Does the Bible Support Same-Sex Marriage?, you argue that you don’t need sex and marriage to have a fulfilling life, referring to the NT’s view of singleness. While this is a great response when talking to a fellow inerrantist, how would you make the same point when talking to a skeptic (specifically, a skeptic who thinks the Bible is anti-Gay)?57:32 Which view of interpreting the story of Noah & son’s sin in Genesis 9 is your preferred?

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Janice Rosser Allen is CEO and President of International Cooperating Ministries (ICM), the global ministry founded by her father, Dois Rosser, which celebrates its 40th anniversary this year. She has served on ICM’s Board of Directors since 1986 and has led the organization as CEO since 2008. A graduate of the University of Virginia and Duke University, Janice worked in clinical and academic oncology nursing before God called her into full-time ministry with ICM. Widowed at 51, she is an ordained elder, author of God in the Crossroads, and she’s passionate about empowering indigenous Christian leaders worldwide.

00:00 — Introduction: How ICM Is Growing the Global Church

06:07 — Albert Schweitzer's Missionary Legacy and Radical Faith

08:09 — Indigenous Missions: Why Local Church Leaders Matter

11:46 — Cooperating with local, indigenous leadership in missions

16:12 — How Technology Is Transforming Christian Missions

18:07 — How Mission Organizations Vet Trusted Partners

22:07 — What the Global Church Can Teach Western Christians

29:37 — Powerful Mission Stories from Vietnam and Rwanda

34:31 — American Christianity vs. the Global Church

41:41 — Church Growth in Iran, Nepal, and Other Restricted Nations

45:54 — Why Christianity Is Growing in Thailand

47:03 — Prosperity Gospel and Persecution: Challenges Facing the Global Church

50:08 — Building local churches with local workers and materials

51:20 — Are Short-Term Mission Trips Helping or Hurting?

56:56 — How You Can Support Indigenous Missions

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Dr. O. Alan Noble is Professor of English at Oklahoma Baptist University, a fellow at the Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics, and author of four books, including his most recent book: To Live Well: Practical Wisdom for Moving Through Chaotic Times.

Check out the Christ at the Checkpoint conference at: www.christatthecheckpoint.bethbc.edu

Time Stamps:

00:00 Introduction 

03:46 Advice for Aspiring Writers

07:03 Moral Confusion and Living Well in Chaotic Times

10:47 Can Going Offline Fix Modern Life?

13:04 The Seven Classical Virtues Explained

14:28 On Prudence and Difficulty Making Decisions

22:49 Why Courage Is Hard for Young Adults Today

27:19 Justice, Social Media, and Virtue Signaling

36:07 Suffering, Courage, and Healing from Trauma

42:23 Which Virtues Are Hardest to Practice?

44:50 Politics, Institutions, and the Common Good

52:47 Are Big Corporations Inherently Evil? (Closing Thoughts)

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Lindsey Medenwaldt is an assistant professor of business and economics at Northwestern College in Iowa. Lindsey has written two books: Bridge-Building Apologetics and her recent (co-authored with Dr. Douglas Groothuis) What If Jesus Is Right? will be released in August 2026. Lindsey engages extensively on the topics of apologetics and worldview as a writer, editor, teacher, and speaker. She has a Jurist Doctorate, a masters in public administration, and a masters in apologetics and ethics from Denver Seminary.

Time Stamps:

00:00 Introduction 

01:42 How Lindsay Became an Apologist

06:20 When you Don’t Know the Answer

07:49 Apologetics without being Argumentative

11:32 Making friends as Adults 

14:20 Evangelism for Introverts 

26:20 Moving from Small Talk to Big Faith Conversations 

30:06 Evangelism on a Plane 

35:47 When you can’t Figure out what to say 

40:36 Political Division and Evangelism 

45:49 Social Media and A.I impact on Relationships 

49:37 Gen Z, Relationships, and Human Connection

57:39 What if Jesus was Right? Biblical reliability matters 

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Dr. Ben Norquist is a writer, scholar, and serves as the Director of Communications & Development for Bethlehem Institute for Peace & Justice, bringing Palestinian Christian teaching into conversations within the global church. Dr. Brian Miller is a professor of sociology at Wheaton College, and his research interests include the American suburbs (particularly their development, culture, depictions in media, and housing), cities, religion and place and how it relates to American evangelicalism and culture. Together, Ben and Brian wrote a recent book together called: Every Somewhere Sacred: Rescuing a Theology of Place in the American Imagination

Time Stamps

00:00 Introduction

02:01 What is a Theology of Place? 

06:56 Ethics and Place. 

11:29 The Morality of Cities. Why do we build these places? 

17:11 Patriotism, Christian Citizenship & Love of Place 

23:54 Gentrification, NIMBYism & Who Is My Neighbor?

30:33 What Theology of Place Is Trying to Recover

34:40 Israel-Palestine Through the Lens of Land

40:34 Christianity in the Big City vs. Rural Christianity and the Suburbs

49:2 Where to Find More Brian and Ben

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Dr. Jeannine Brown is The David Price Professor of Biblical and Theological Foundations at Bethel Seminary, where she has taught for 26 years. She focuses her research on the New Testament, hermeneutics, and integration. She’s written a bunch of books and commentaries, including Scripture as Communication, Becoming Whole and Holy, Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels (editor), commentaries on Matthew, Philippians, and 1 Peter (forthcoming), and a couple books most pertinent to our conversation: Gospels as Stories and The Greatest Story Ever Retold (with John Anthony Dunne). Jeannine is a member of the NIV translation committee. In this podcast conversation, we talk about reading the gospels as narratives versus harmonizing the 4 Gospels, and we also talk about the portrayal of Jesus in film, including the popular The Chosen series.

Time Stamps:

00:00 Introduction

02:57 Why Read the Gospels as Narrative?

07:36 Are the Gospel Differences Contradictions?

11:45 Ancient Biography and the Gospels

21:45 Why John's Gospel Is Different

33:44 How Each Gospel Presents Jesus

39:15 How to Read the Gospels Well

44:15 Bible Movies and Portraying Jesus

54:20 The Chosen: Creative License and Biblical Faithfulness

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Andrew Bunt is the Content Director at Living Out, a UK based ministry that equips the church in matters related to sexuality and gender from biblical perspective. (living out.org). Andrew is a pastor, speaker, and author who’s written several books including his latest book: Getting God’s Perspective: A Short Christian Introduction to Worldviews, Sexuality & Gender. In this conversation, we discuss questions about the Christian sexual ethic—is it beautiful or oppressive and harmful? Why a Christian worldview is essential for understanding the Christian sexuality ethic. How a Christian view of freedom and progress are important for understanding sexuality. And then, in our "extra innings" portion of this conversation, we discuss, once again, whether Christians should “identify” as gay (and what the term “identity” even means).

Time Stamps

00:00:00 Introduction

00:02:12 The Beauty of Christian Sexuality & God's Design 

00:06:33 Why the Secular Story About Sexuality Falls Short 

00:14:17 Talking with Young People About LGBTQ Friends & Biblical Boundaries 

00:22:58 Living with Unmet Sexual Desires and Spiritual Growth 

00:27:15 Singleness, Loneliness, and the Community Jesus Envisioned 

00:34:30 The Importance of Deep Friendship and Belonging in the Church 

00:45:00 Why Worldview Matters for Conversations About Sexuality & Gender 

00:55:00 A Christian Worldview of Progress and Living Faithfully in a Changing Culture 

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Dr. Ellie Paley received her Ph.D. from Cambridge University, where she studied the book of Job, and she’s currently pursuing a post-doc at Bar-Illan University in Israel. Ellie literally memorized the entire book—in Hebrew…in 6 months! Job is her gig and she knows more about the book than anyone I know. In this episode, Ellie gives a master class on the book of Job, discussing its date, the setting, the meaning of “The Adversary” (hasatan, or Satan?), the purpose of the prologue (Job 1-2), the content of purpose of the dialogue cycle of Job’s 3 friends, the purpose of the transitionary wisdom poem of Job 28, the role and function of Elihu’s speech and why she thinks he’s a rather presumptuous young buck who thinks he knows better than he really does, God’s response to Job, and how the book resolves in the latter chapters. We end by reflecting on Job’s contribution to the question of theodicy and the problem of evil. To follow Ellie’s work, check out her Substack “Compulsively Contemplative” here.

Time Stamps

00:00:00 Introduction

00:01:05 Why Memorize the Book of Job? (Hebrew, Theology & Spiritual Formation)

00:12:30 Who Wrote Job? Date, Setting & Historical Background

00:24:28 Is Job Historical? Debating the Origins of the Book of Job

00:28:10 Satan in Job: Understanding the Divine Adversary

00:38:42 God's Speeches & the Meaning of Suffering in Job

00:43:57 What’s up with Job’s friends? Retribution Theology Explained

00:55:14 Who Is Elihu? His Role in the Book of Job

01:01:05 God Answers Job from the Whirlwind

01:06:41 Job's Repentance, Restoration & the Ending Explained

01:16:05 Theodicy: Job on the Problem of Evil, Suffering, and Trusting God

01:23:17 Ellie Paley's Ministry, Writing & Substack. 

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Dr. Ellie Paley received her Ph.D. from Cambridge University, where she studied the book of Job, and she’s currently pursuing a post-doc at Bar-Illan University in Israel. Ellie literally memorized the entire book—in Hebrew…in 6 months! Job is her gig and she knows more about the book than anyone I know. In this episode, Ellie gives a master class on the book of Job, discussing its date, the setting, the meaning of “The Adversary” (hasatan, or Satan?), the purpose of the prologue (Job 1-2), the content of purpose of the dialogue cycle of Job’s 3 friends, the purpose of the transitionary wisdom poem of Job 28, the role and function of Elihu’s speech and why she thinks he’s a rather presumptuous young buck who thinks he knows better than he really does, God’s response to Job, and how the book resolves in the latter chapters. We end by reflecting on Job’s contribution to the question of theodicy and the problem of evil. To follow Ellie’s work, check out her Substack “Compulsively Contemplative.” 

Time Stamps

00:00:00 Introduction

00:01:05 Why Memorize the Book of Job? (Hebrew, Theology & Spiritual Formation)

00:12:30 Who Wrote Job? Date, Setting & Historical Background

00:24:28 Is Job Historical? Debating the Origins of the Book of Job

00:28:10 Satan in Job: Understanding the Divine Adversary

00:38:42 God's Speeches & the Meaning of Suffering in Job

00:43:57 What’s up with Job’s friends? Retribution Theology Explained

00:55:14 Who Is Elihu? His Role in the Book of Job

01:01:05 God Answers Job from the Whirlwind

01:06:41 Job's Repentance, Restoration & the Ending Explained

01:16:05 Theodicy: Job on the Problem of Evil, Suffering, and Trusting God

01:23:17 Ellie Paley's Ministry, Writing & Substack. 

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If you want to watch the full Exiles Conference on demand, you can get access to the whole thing—including all the breakout sessions—for just $49 here.

In today’s episode, I’m working through some of the top upvoted questions from my conversation with Sandy Richter at Exiles 26 about women in leadership and my new book, From Genesis to Junia. If you haven’t listened to that conversation yet, I’d encourage you to go back and start there, since this episode really picks up where that one left off.

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful questions—and sorry it took me a month to get to them. I’m grateful for how engaged you all were in this conversation, and I hope this follow-up is helpful.

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Here's the questions answered in the full episode:

0:46 You mentioned you have a complicated relationship with church. However, as a trained Bible scholar, what do you view your responsibility is to the local church? 8:52 Is regular sexual intimacy necessary for marriage? I am thinking about a mixed orientation marriage or a marriage where one or both partners are asexual.14:04 Thoughts on lay people going to seminary? If we can’t find good theological training/space to discuss from local church, where to get it in person(not online)?19:03 What Bible verses would you reference when a Christian college student asks why it's sinful to have sex before marriage?28:24 Most churches lack women leaders and training for women— how do we collectively get more female pov heard and taught at church?34:22 What do you think of IVF and egg freezing?35:40 What do you think makes a healthy church? ( from your experience being exposed to so many different churches)45:37 Fiscal conservatism is a hallmark of the political Right. Is a conservative financial approach consistent with the bible as it describes how we relate to money?54:20 What are your thoughts on usage of social media as Christian— with the rise of Christian contents/pastors on social media using as platform?58:55 What has your experience been like or thoughts on building community or friendships— in church or outside of church/faith community that felt flourishing?1:01:25 Whose job is it to gatekeep a closed communion? Should clergy stop people from taking communion, or is it up to the individual?01:05:30 Thoughts, insight or advice? I sometimes feel more drawn to read about the Bible than read the Bible or more drawn to those drawn to Jesus than Jesus himself.01:09:19 Matthew Vines referenced your discussion on the Hebrew word "kenegdo" in a conversational debate with David Bennet: how would you respond to his pushback?01:13:58 Hypothetically, with humility about our own blind spots, what warning can we give about what Jesus might say on Judgment Day to supporters of the Gaza genocide?01:17:46 Is there anything uniquely troubling to you about Trump, or do you see him as just another flawed leader of a flawed Babylon?

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At Exiles 26, my friend Dr. Sandy Richter joined me for a panel discussion and Q&A about my new book, From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Actually Says about Women in Leadership. Once we got going, we ended up talking longer than expected and only had about three minutes left for audience questions.

So to make up for it, we’re releasing the full conversation here, along with a follow-up episode where I respond to the top upvoted questions from the event. That follow-up episode drops on Thursday. In the meantime, enjoy this conversation.

You can find more from Dr. Richter at sandyrichter.org.

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To listen to our extra-innnings conversation, where we talk about LGBTQ Pride Night at major league baseball games, become a member of the Theology in the Raw community at patreon.com/theologyintheraw.

Dr. Paul Putz is Assistant professor of Christianity and sports and director of the Faith & Sports Institute at Baylor’s Truett Seminary. He's the author of The Spirit of the Game: American Christianity and Big-Time Sports (Oxford University Press, 2024), and the forthcoming Jesus and James Naismith: A History of Basketball and Christianity from Origins to the NBA (Eerdmans. 2027).

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Brittany Dicus is a sales and marketing director for a beverage company, a master's student at Talbot School of Theology, and serves on the teaching team at Church of the Open Door in Maple Grove, MN. With one foot in the corporate world and another in the church world, Brittany has thought a lot about viewing her work as mission. 

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Fares Abraham is a Palestinian Christian and Daniel Klein is a Jewish Christian. Both Fares and Daniel grew up minutes from each other in the West Bank, and yet they were worlds apart—Fares lived in occupied Palestine and Daniel live in an Israeli settlement. Both of them share about their very different journies, which end up in similar places, culminating in a friendship, which offers a glimpse of what peace between Israelis and Palestinians could look like: not through politics or slogans, but through the reconciling power of Christ, honest truth-telling, mutual dignity, and a shared commitment to justice, mutual flourishing, and peace for all who call the Holy Land home. Daniel is the author of My Freedom from Zionism and Fares leads Levant Ministries.

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To listen to the extra innings portion of this episode, where David discusses why it's okay for faithful Christians to identify as gay, head over to https://patreon.com/theologyintheraw to become a member of the Theology in the Raw community.

Dr. David Bennett (DPhil, Oxford) is a Postdoctoral Research Fellow in Systematic Theology and Christian Ethics at the University of Oxford and Associate Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall. He is the author of the bestselling memoir A War of Loves --the story of his journey from atheistic gay activist in Sydney to celibate gay Christian—and a member of the Archbishop of Canterbury’s College of Evangelists. His Oxford doctoral thesis, Queering the Queer in Contemporary Theology: An Augustinian Ethics of Same-Sex Desire and Gay Celibacy, is in press with T&T Clark/Bloomsbury (2027), as is his second popular-level book, Beyond Compromise: Reclaiming a Biblical Vision of Love, Sexuality, and the Kingdom of God (Tyndale House).

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Lecrae Moore is an American hip-hop artist, author, entrepreneur, and social activist. He is widely recognized as one of the most influential figures in Christian hip-hop (CHH). He has accumulated over a dozen Grammy nominations and is a multi-Grammy Award winner, alongside numerous GMA Dove Awards, Stellar Awards, and Soul Train Music Awards. In 2014, his landmark seventh album, Anomaly, debuted at No. 1 on the mainstream Billboard 200 and the Top Gospel Albums chart simultaneously—a historic first. This episode is a raw conversation with Lecrae—his journey with Christ, music, and the evangelical church—a journey with many twists and turns, as you’ll see. In the extra innings portion of this episode, Lecrae opens up about his current place in Christian church—is he conservative, liberal, right, left, evangelical, or whatever.

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Dan Chung is the Executive Director of Crossing Borders, an organization that brings the gospel to North Korean refugees. Dan is one of the foremost experts on the North Korean refugee crisis, with relationships with both organizations and scholars researching the ongoing developments of the Korean Peninsula. Dan’s book, A Hard Freedom: The Dreams and Trauma of North Korean Refugees, chronicles his insights and observations in his work with Crossing Borders.

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Join my Patreon community to listen my Extra Innings where I respond to egalitarian critiques from Dr. Beth Allison Barr and more!

Preston's book From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership has been out for 3 months and has received many positive reviews--but also some critical ones. In this episode, Preston responds to some of the critiques he's received, focusing largely on John Whittaker's critical response. Preston has responded to John's review on his blog.

Learn more about the NLT here

Read John Whittakers Blog here

Read Preston's Response here

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Hey friends, every month I do bonus episodes where I tackle questions from my Patreon community. For May, I hit 16 questions (see below). For this free bonus, I've included the first few questions. For the full thing, join a bronze, silver, or gold tier on my Patreon! You'll also get access to Extra Innings, Exiles conference content, free tickets, Zoom chats and more!

Questions:

0:52. If a pastor commits adultery, but repents, is he still disqualified from his office for the rest of his life in view of elder reqs in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1?7:55. What were your thoughts on the Pete Enns session at Exiles? In particular, how would you steel man his position about the flood narrative? 22:27. When Pete Enns spoke at Exiles I think he mentioned maybe Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses did not actually exist. What are your thoughts on this? 29:16. Advice for initiating movement into mutualism in practice & policy?31:50. How do "non-affirming" traditions engage the practice of ecumenical unity with "affirming" traditions? Does "Side A" operate outside the bounds of orthodoxy? 37:39. Is your family's current church egalitarian? If not, now that you've landed on a position, has that impacted your ability to serve/teach/etc?42:19. Why follow some OT laws (lying) but not others (shellfish, polyester)? Had an OT prof that taught that ‘ceremonial/civil/moral’ distinction doesn’t hold water46:07. If the annihilation theory is correct, how does that help people see their need for a savior? If you don’t believe in God, ceasing to exist seems preferable. 48:13. Do you think the accommodating and not judging mentioned in Romans 14 could be applied to pronoun hospitality and how we interact with others we disagree with? 49:04. What spiritual rhythms feel most grounding for you in your ministry? And how do you balance a rhythm like scripture reading with scholarly work?50:46. How do you interact with non-Christian Biblical scholars? I have a hard time taking them seriously if they don’t actually believe in what they’re studying.52:56. I’ve read recently claims that most Israelites worshipped Asherah as Yahweh’s wife and that it wasn’t until later that she was condemned. Any insight?54:05. Has there been any updates or significant changes in research around gender dysphoria since Embodied was released?58:36. Do Jesus' statements in Matthew 19 and the Sermon on the Mount imply that anyone has grounds for divorce because lusting after someone is committing adultery?01:00:43. At what point does being wrong about theology become sin? I'm thinking of pre-civil-war churches preaching slavery was OK, and extrapolating to today's issues.01:02:41. I heard a conservative Christian reporter refer to individuals experiencing gender dysphoria as "gender confused." Do you consider this term pejorative? 

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Preston's book From Genesis to Junia: An Honest Search for What the Bible Really Says about Women in Leadership has been out for 3 months and has recieved many positive reviews--but also some critical ones. In this episode, Preston responds to some of the critiques he's recived, focusing largely on Tom Schreiner's critical review. Preston has also written a response to Tom Schreiner's review.

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Dave DeCamp is an American journalist and the news editor of Antiwar.com, where he covers U.S. foreign policy, war, and international affairs. He also hosts the daily podcast Antiwar News with Dave DeCamp.

Visit https://www.vom.org/TITRFoxe to request your copy of Foxe: Voices of the Martyrs

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Dr. Gavin Ortlund is a pastor, author, speaker, and apologist for the Christian faith. He serves as President of Truth Unites, Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Nashville, and Visiting Professor of Historical Theology at Phoenix Seminary. Gavin has a Ph.D. from Fuller Theological Seminary in historical theology, and an M.Div from Covenant Theological Seminary. He is the author of nine books, including his forthcoming book: Why Christianity Makes Sense: A Book About Jesus, the Mysteries of the World, and the Longings in Your Heart.

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Matt Chandler serves as the Lead Pastor at The Village Church in Flower Mound, TX and is the author of several books including his most recent book: Becoming Like Jesus: The Everyday Journey to Living a Life of Holiness 

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Watch Part 2 for FREE on Patreon!

Dan Allender, Brook Keels, and Chinwe Williams joined me in Minneapolis to help the church better engage mental health trends, Gen Z, trauma, anxiety, and more. Each gave a 15-20 minute talk, then they joined Preston on the couch for a panel conversation and audience Q & A that you can watch free on patreon. 

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Watch Exiles in Babylon 2026 on demand!

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Street Hymns is a battle rapper, writer, spoken word artist, and creative voice who has been part of the Exiles Conference since the very beginning. In this episode, we sit down in person to debrief the recent Exiles Conference in Minneapolis, and talk about why gatherings like this matter in today’s cultural landscape.

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Dr. Gabrielle Clowdus founded Settled, a movement of believers radically committed to life with the poor. Settled was birthed out of Gabrielle’s doctoral research on chronic homelessness and affordable housing, where she discovered the critical response is enduring relationships. Settled exists to guide the local church to cultivate home in a homeless world by planting intentional and permanent tiny home communities on their land.

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Get your copy of Paul for the World by Dr. Nijay Gupta here: https://bit.ly/3PyGddR

Dr. John Whittaker is a former pastor, church planter, and Bible College professor, who now teaches the Bible through his amazing podcast The Listeners Commentary (listenerscommentary.com), which provides clear, down-to-earth teaching through the books of the New Testament. John has recently completed teaching through the entire New Testament for his podcast and has moved on to the Old Testament. 

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Will Acuff is the co-founder of Corner to Corner, an organization that pursues the love of neighbor by fostering educational and economic equity, creating a city where all can thrive. Will has master’s degree from Reformed Theological Seminary and is the author of his first book: No Elevator to Everest: Shift from Survive to Thrive through Spirit-Led Self-Awareness

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Paul Sloan is the Chair of Theology and Associate Professor of Early Christianity at Houston Christian University. He received his Ph.D. from St. Andrews University and he’s the author of this outstanding book: Jesus and the Law of Moses.

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Dr. Jennifer Powell McNutt has a Ph.D. from St. Andrews University and is the Franklin S. Dyrness Professor of Biblical and Theological Studies at Wheaton College. She’s the author of several books, including her most recent: The Mary We Forgot: What the Apostle to the Apostles Teaches the Church Today.

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Tish Harrison Warren is a writer and an Anglican priest. She is the author of several books, including her latest book: What Grows in Weary Lands: On Christian Resilience which releases on May 12.

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Dr. Jarvis Williams is Professor of NT Interpretation at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and is the author of numerous books, including his recent book Paul’s gospel in Romans: Vertical, Horizontal, and Cosmic Dimensions. This was an awesome deep dive of Pauline justification for all the Bible nerds out there!

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Dr. Lynn Cohick is New Testament Professor at Houston Christian University and has written numerous books, include Christian Women in the Patristic World, which she co-authored with my other guest today. Dr. Amy Brown Hughes received her Ph.D. in historical theology with an emphasis in early Christianity from Wheaton College and is an associate professor of theology at Gordon College. 

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Bo Stern-Brady is the lead pastor of B4Church (Beaverton Foursquare Church) in Beaverton, Oregon. She was appointed as lead pastor in 2024 after serving as the church’s interim transitional leader beginning in 2023. Prior to joining B4Church, she served for approximately 20 years as a teaching pastor at Westside Church in Bend, Oregon. Bo has written multiple books and created the Soulspace devotional app, and her writing has been featured in outlets such as Christianity Today and Focus on the Family.

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Colby F. Maier is a pastor, speaker, and founder of Academy of the Bible, a global online discipleship platform that brings together world-class instructors to help Christians grow in biblical literacy, spiritual formation, and real-world application of Scripture. With a combined following of over 4 million across his platforms, Colby is known for communicating biblical teaching in a way that’s both deeply relatable and powerfully relevant to everyday life. This interview was recorded in person in Portland Oregon, so if you’re listening to this podcast, you might want to pop over to the YouTube version so he can see us hanging out in person.

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Dr. Amy Orr-Ewing is an international author, speaker and theologian who addresses the deep questions of our day with meaningful answers found in the Christian Faith. Travelling internationally Amy is a regular speaker across university campuses, businesses, parliaments, churches and conferences as well as on TV, radio and podcasts. She is the author of multiple books including ‘Where is God in All the Suffering?’ (runner up Michael Ramsay Prize, 2023), bestselling ‘Why Trust the Bible?’ and the forthcoming 'Forgiveness: Reclaiming Its Power in a Culture of Outrage and Fear' which you can pre-order now (releases 4/20/26)

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Christopher Haylett (aka Nerdy Christian) has a B.A. in Global Development and an M.S. in International Business. Christopher is a popular social media influencer who engages in topics about culture, politics, Christianity, and theology.

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Exiles 25 will be here soon! May 30 - April 2! Register today to join us in person or stream online! https://www.theologyintheraw.com/exiles26

Dr. Mark E. Moore is a bestselling author and the teaching pastor at Christ's Church of the Valley in Peoria, Arizona. He previously spent two decades as a New Testament professor at Ozark Christian College. Mark is the author of several books, including his most recent book The Missing Messiah: The Jesus We Can No Longer Ignore, which he co-authored with Kyle Idleman.

Check out Kairos Classroom to learn biblical Greek and Hebrew!

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Tony Scarcello has served in pastoral ministry since 2011, and is currently the pastor of discipleship at Red Hills Church just outside Portland, Oregon. He is the author of Regenerate: Following Jesus After Deconstruction and his most recent book Love All Our Neighbors: How Churches That Hold a Traditional Sexual Ethic Can Care for LGBTQ People, which is forwarded by Preston Sprinkle. It’s a fantastic book, and Tony is a fantastic friend and person.

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