It's the one year anniversary of FAT TALK, so we're celebrating with a special episode for you today: Virginia is reading Chapter 11! The title is ?I Got Taller and Gymnastics Got Scarier.? That?s a quote from Camille, a 13-year-old former gymnast in Boise, Idaho, who you?ll hear from shortly. Camille and so many other kids talked about how youth sports and dance?these activities that should be entirely body positive and health promoting?can often end up being wildly unsafe environments for kids. Especially kids in bigger bodies. 

If you like what you hear in this chapter, you can of course check Fat Talk out from your library or purchase the audiobook, ebook, or hardcover editions anywhere books are sold. I will be the most delighted if you get the hardcover from Split Rock Books, my local independent bookstore, which hosts the Burnt Toast Bookshop. You can also support independent bookstores by getting the audiobook from Libro.FM and the ebook from Kobo. 

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing. Follow Virginia on Instagram. The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

It's time for your April Indulgence Gospel! Which we recorded in the same room! The banter should be more delightful than ever! 

Here?s what we?re getting into:

What to say if your tween switches to Diet Coke?

How to embrace ?joyful movement? when you hate exercise.

Are electrolyte drinks a fun ?end of day? beverage?

Virginia?s most unpopular opinion (yes it?s about skinny jeans). 

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscribe here.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

Introducing the Unflattering x Burnt Toast Style Challenge! Corinne and Virginia are joined by Dacy Gillespie, stylist and author of the Unflattering newsletter to talk about why style challenges can feel like diets and what we're going to do differently. (No but really!) 

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia, Corinne and Dacy are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

Today?s Indulgence Gospel was produced and hosted by Corinne, Dacy, and Virginia. You can follow Corinne @selltradeplus. Dacy is @mindful closet and her Substack newsletter is unflattering and Virginia is @V_SoleSmith on Instagram.

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism! 

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark! It's time for your April Extra Butter! 

This month we?re answering a thorny mix of listener questions:

Do we ever get tempted to buy back into diet culture?

Is weight-loss surgery (and meds) not ?doing it the old-fashioned way??

And what should you say when your daughter?s pants don?t fit?and she hates all her other clothes?

Both of these letters bring up a lot of complicated issues. CW for discussions of intentional weight loss, anti-fat rhetoric and weight loss surgery.

If you are already an Extra Butter subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack. To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

Otherwise, to hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to join Extra Butter. It's $99 per year, and is the hands down best way to keep Burnt Toast an ad- and sponsor-free space. 

PS. Don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow her on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who also runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism! 

Today Virginia is chatting with Mary Mahoney, co-host of the Dolls of Our Lives podcast, co-author of Dolls Of Our Lives: Why We Can?t Quit American Girl, and author of Landline. 

Dolls Of Our Lives is available in the Burnt Toast Bookshop!

Don?t forget, you can always take 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk from Split Rock Books! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. (This one is really good -- old magazine scans! text threads and old family photos documenting Virginia's Samantha doll trauma!)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your March Indulgence Gospel! Corinne and Virginia are talking about their new favorite comfy jeans, Paleo waffles, and whether wanting to lose weight is always because of the patriarchy. 

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscribe here.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

Today Virginia is chatting with Christyna Johnson (@encougagingdietitian on Instagram and TikTok).

Christyna is a registered dietitian specializing in eating disorders, disordered eating, and body image work. She also talks a lot about the intersection of consumerism, diet culture and white supremacy ? and that giant topic is what we?re getting into today. 

To tell us YOUR thoughts, and to get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark! It's time for your March Extra Butter! This month we?re answering a reader question about baggy, black clothes. Then Virginia takes Corinne down a rabbit hole to unpack the rainbow produce, and subtle food- and fat-shaming, of Kids Eat in Color.

If you are already an Extra Butter subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack. To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

Otherwise, to hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to join Extra Butter. It's $99 per year, and is the hands down best way to keep Burnt Toast an ad- and sponsor-free space. Click here to subscribe.

PS. Don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow her on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who also runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism! 

Today Virginia is chatting with Lyz Lenz, author of the newsletter

Men Yell at Me and the brand new book This American Ex-Wife: How I Ended My Marriage and Started My Life.

This American Ex-Wife is available in the Burnt Toast Bookshop!

Don?t forget, you can always take 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk from Split Rock Books! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your February Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. This month instead of the usual listener questions, we are going to tell you about a bunch of new books we are very about.

All of these titles are available in a special Book Gospel section of the Burnt Toast book store over at Split Rock books, where you can take 10% off any title from today?s episode with the code ?bookgospel? through March 31.

Indulgence gospel episodes are usually paywalled, but we?re keeping the entire books discussion free today. You will need to be a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to listen to Butter, which includes recommendations from some of the authors featured in today?s episode for a specially engineered wireless bra, an under the radar TV show, where to get the best cannoli, and MORE!

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll get the books discussion, but to hear our recommendation segment and to read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscribe here.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

Today Virginia is chatting with Wendy Lopez and Jessica Jones, founders of the beloved Food Heaven podcast and the brand new Diabetes Digital. 

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark! It's time for your February Extra Butter! Today we're talking about the strange new trend of plus size influencers pursuing public weight loss. (We also get into walking pads, for reasons that will become clear.) 

CW: Discussion of intentional weight loss.

If you are already an Extra Butter subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack. To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

Otherwise, to hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to join Extra Butter. It's $99 per year, and is the hands down best way to keep Burnt Toast an ad- and sponsor-free space. 

PS. Don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith (follow her on Instagram) and Corinne Fay, who also runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism! 

Today Virginia is chatting with Ash Brandin, a middle school teacher librarian better known as The Gamer Educator. Ash helps caregivers navigate screen time boundaries, to ensure it benefits the whole family. And we're going to talk about how screen time attitudes can intersect so much with diet culture and anti-fatness.

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your January Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. We?re getting into 1000 hours outside (is it a diet?), eating sugar when you're sick (does it trash your immune system?), and many, many recs.

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscribe here.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

Welcome to the first ever LIVE episode of Burnt Toast! We recorded this on December 3, at Seattle?s Town Hall. This was the official end of the Fat Talk book tour, but I promise it?s not a regular book promo conversation. Because it?s author Angela Garbes and Virginia, talking about books, but also talking about bodies and big life transitions and other good stuff.

All of Angela's and Virginia's books, are available in the Burnt Toast Bookshop!

Don?t forget, you can always take 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk from Split Rock Books! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with author and feminist philosopher Kate Manne, about her new book Unshrinking: How To Face Fatphobia. Kate is also an associate professor of philosophy at Cornell University and author of Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny and Entitled: How Male Privilege Hurts Women.

All of Kate?s books, including Unshrinking, are available in the Burnt Toast Bookshop!

Don?t forget, you can always take 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk from Split Rock Books! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

And if you love today?s conversation you should come see Kate and Virginia together at Community Bookstore in Brooklyn on January 26. We?ll be celebrating the launch of Unshrinking and we would love to see you there! 

To get all of the links and resources mentioned in this episode, as well as a complete transcript, visit our show page. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark!

It?s time for your January Extra Butter episode. This month, we?re doing a few listener questions on how to find fat-friendly fitness spaces, how to deal with those coded ?you look so great!? compliments, and how to tune out the mainstream media?s often relentless fatphobia (especially in January).

To listen to the full episode and read the full transcript, you?ll need to join Extra Butter, our premium subscription tier.

Extra Butter usually costs $120 per year, but is on sale this week for just $75! Subscribe here!

We?re running this sale based on your feedback! Substack still isn?t set up for us to charge monthly for EB, so we?re dropping the price to make it more accessible for you. And if you?re already a regular paid Burnt Toast subscriber, you?ll only need to pay the difference to upgrade.

Here?s what you get with Extra Butter:

* Monthly podcast episodes! These tend to be a little more personal or just conversations that aren?t quite ready for primetime. So far we?ve covered the anti-diet to alt-right pipeline, a truly bonkers TikTok diet and my post-divorce body.

* Monthly live threads! Next up, this Monday, January 8, at 12pm Eastern. You can ask anything you like, and we?ll also have a fun Friday Thread-style prompt! If you can?t make it (I get it, time zones!) but have a question to ask or an idea for a group prompt, you can drop it here and catch up on the thread later.

* A comp subscription to Cult of Perfect! My new podcast mini-series with where we explore the intersection of motherhood, public performance, and bodies. Also trad wives.

And Extra Butter is the hands down best way to support this work. This subscription tier is why we?re able to pay Corinne and Tommy for their invaluable contributions, why we?re able to offer unlimited comp subscriptions, and why we?re able to pay podcast guests a small honorarium to thank them for their time and labor. And Extra Butter ensures that the Burnt Toast community can always stay an ad- and sponsor-free space?which is crucial for body liberation journalism.

Burnt Toast is on winter break this week, so we're rerunning a favorite conversation from last year, with author Lyz Lenz about divorce and diet culture. 

This conversation was inspired in part by a piece Virginia wrote in fall of 2022 about how diet culture shows up in co-parenting. Lyz writes the excellent newsletter Men Yell at Me. She?s also the author of God Land: A Story of Faith, Loss, and Renewal in Middle America, and Belabored: A Vindication of the Rights of Pregnant Women. And she just launched a brand new podcast, This American Ex-Wife, which is also the title of her next book, coming out in February and available to preorder now!

Don?t forget, you can always take 10 percent off that purchase at Split Rock Books if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

On living alone in the woods with our pets

The subversive joy of the single mother

Ransom Note

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your December Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. We?re getting into fat boots, fat travel challenges, and ofc, diet culture during the holiday season. We got you! 

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. Subscriptions are 20 percent off until Saturday December 23! Subscribe here.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Some of these are affiliate links. Shopping our links is another great way to support Burnt Toast! 

Virginia's office painting is by Nancy Rutter

Vince Camuto sweater from Nordstrom

joggers from Beyond Yoga

Beyond Yoga leggings

ankles don?t get fat at the same rate as butts

BT gift guide

Alder Apparel overalls

Madewell, Old Navy overall options

Target overalls

a fake tree

underwear scientist

Thunderpants.

belly liners

dress shields

the one that has the purple on the tube

ARQ

Nisolo

Torrid wide fit shoes and ASOS also has some wide fit shoes

Lane Bryant, too

Adelante Shoe Company

as someone who recently had a high cholesterol reading

fat girls traveling

fat hacks series on Tiktok

theater seating

Sofie Hagen has a good video

EeBoo puzzles

Piecework Puzzles

Breadhead

Cavallini & Co?s vintage puzzle series

Slow Horses

our recent Friday thread about laundry

the laundry hampers

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

?Today Virginia is chatting with Jessie Diaz-Herrera. Jessie is a body affirming dancer, health and wellness influencer, and fitness enthusiast. You might know her on Instagram as @curveswithmoves, or from her Free the Jiggle classes.

The first half of this episode is for everyone, and then paid subscribers will get to hear Jessie answering your listener questions about size-inclusive fitness. Here?s how to join us to hear the whole (amazing!) conversation! 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Jessie's plus-sized fitness company Power Plus Wellness

Jessie as a Trampoline Mom

You might have to make a tough call when dance or sports aren't body affirming

Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, My Stroke of Insight

Campaign for Size Freedom

Maintenance Phase episode about wellness programming in workplaces

the Britney memoir

Michelle Williams narration. (Note: That?s an affiliate link to Libro.fm, the audiobook platform that supports indie bookstores!)

Lauren Leavell?s workouts

Corinne on powerlifting

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

?Today Virginia is chatting with Crystal Maldonado, a YA author who writes inclusive rom-com novels about fat brown girls.

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Don?t forget, you can always take 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

Or you can take 10 percent off if you order all three of Crystal?s books, or any three books from the Burnt Toast Gift Guide with the code TREAT.

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

last time Crystal was on the pod! 

Fat Chance, Charlie Vega

No Filter and Other Lies

The Fall of Whit Rivera

The problems with ?just lose weight and it?ll fix itself" as a treatment for PCOS

With all of these menstrual conditions, there is just so much stigma

the Britney memoir

Michelle Williams narration. (Note: That?s an affiliate link to Libro.fm, the audiobook platform that supports indie bookstores!)

the audio version of Michelle Williams impression of Justin Timberlake saying fo shiz, fo shiz?

The MTV Diary of Britney Spears

Virginia wrote about Britney's hair for the newsletter.

Butter is paywalled this week! To get all of our tween/teen and YA fan gift recs, subscribe to the Burnt Toast newsletter! 

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark! It's time for your November Extra Butter! We are dissecting 75 Hard (it's not a diet, it's about mental toughness). And Virginia has thoughts on her post-divorce body. 

If you are already an Extra Butter subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

Otherwise, to hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to join Extra Butter. It's $120 per year, and is the hands down best way to keep Burnt Toast an ad- and sponsor-free space. 

PS. Don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

SellTradePlus

Last month's Extra Butter: The anti-diet to alt-right pipeline.

Chrissy King on the podcast

That Instagram post

the scene in the Barbie movie when all the Kens played Push

Tamara Malas Normandie Top

Anthropologie Lace Layering Turtleneck

Virginia's new little French press

one good pair of cords at Target 

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram. Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism! 

?Today Virginia is chatting about body autonomy, diet culture, and chronic health conditions, with Leigh Kamping-Carder, who writes The Heart Dialogues.

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Virginia's story as a mom to a 10-year-old with a heart condition

Not everybody wants to be known as a ?heart warrior.?

How to advocate for yourself at doctors? offices

It is only shockingly recently that pain management has become as big of a focus as it is in pediatric care.

the weird history where doctors thought babies didn?t really experience pain

For a deep dive into how intense medical experiences impact children and what recovery can look like, Virginia loves this book.

There are definitely small things parents can do to improve that dynamic.

Leigh interviewed a model about her scar.

an essay Virginia wrote about having to let go of medical mom guilt.

Heavyweight by Jonathan Goldstein

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your November Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. We?re getting into fat fashion, fat hair, and Fat Friends. Plus a divorce update from Virginia. 

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. 

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

SellTradePlus

Gap jeans

Madewell skinny jeans

one good pair of cords at Target 

Puracy stain remover

grow light by Soltech

Corinne's mini infinity hoops

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

?Today Virginia is chatting with Vashti Harrison, number one New York Times-bestselling author and illustrator of Little Leaders, Little Dreamers, and Little Legends ? about her newest picture book, Big.

AND - we have signed copies of Big and several of Vashti?s other books in the Burnt Toast Bookshop right now! Plus you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.) 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Follow Vashti on Instagram

Kids? books feature talking animals more often than they feature Black kids.

Girlhood Interrupted study from Georgetown Law Center on Poverty and Inequality

Sulwe by Lupita Niyong?o,

Virginia's piece about revisiting Eloise with her daughter.

set of photo frames

anti-diet fat positive stickers

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

?Today Virginia is chatting with musician and comedian Farideh. Her new album, ?The Mother Load? came out on October 24 and we're obsessed! 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Philly Fat Con is THIS WEEKEND! And Burnt Toast is a proud superfat sponsor. It?s going to be an amazing weekend of fat joy, with speakers, movement classes, the Philly Plus Swap and more. All the info and tickets here.

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

The Mother Load is on every streaming platform 

Farideh on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, or Facebook

Such a Good Dad

the diet song

the mom bod song

hairy nipples

Used to be a Ho

the 45 minute poop

the vacation song

I?m a good mom, not a perfect mom

The Eating Instinct

Sarah J. Maas book series

A Lady's Guide to Fortune-Hunting and A Lady's Guide to Scandal both by Sophie Irwin

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

?Today Virginia is chatting with musician and comedian Farideh. Her new album, ?The Mother Load? came out on Tuesday and we're obsessed! 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Philly Fat Con is THIS WEEKEND! And Burnt Toast is a proud superfat sponsor. It?s going to be an amazing weekend of fat joy, with speakers, movement classes, the Philly Plus Swap and more. All the info and tickets here.

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

The Mother Load is on everystreaming platform 

Farideh on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, or Facebook

Such a Good Dad

the diet song

the mom bod song

hairy nipples

Used to be a Ho

the 45 minute poop

the vacation song

I?m a good mom, not a perfect mom

The Eating Instinct

Sarah J. Maas book series

A Lady's Guide to Fortune-Hunting and A Lady's Guide to Scandal both by Sophie Irwin

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

?Today Virginia is chatting with Christine Yu, author of Up to Speed: The Groundbreaking Science of Women Athletes. We dive deep into misogyny in sports science, reclaiming carbs, and conduct a little Sports Bra Science.

If you order Up to Speed from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Philly Fat Con is coming up! And Burnt Toast is a proud superfat sponsor. It?s going to be an amazing weekend of fat joy, with speakers, movement classes, the Philly Plus Swap and more. All the info and tickets here.

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Christine's Instagram and website.

Bloom bras

Martinus Evans, 300 pounds and running

When Women Were Dragons by Kelly Barnhill

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

?Today Virginia is chatting with Mecca Jamilah Sullivan, author of Big Girl.

Originally from Harlem, Mecca is now an associate professor of English at Georgetown University and lives in Washington DC. She is also the author The Poetics of Difference: Queer Feminist Forms in the African Diaspora and Blue Talk and Love. It is an utter delight to talk about writing, fatness, and bodies with Mecca.

If you order Big Girl from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

And don?t forget to check out our new Burnt Toast Podcast Bonus Content! This week we have a reading list?with suggestions from me and Mecca?of other incredible memoirs and novels that tell the coming of age stories we don?t hear often enough. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Philly Fat Con is coming up! And Burnt Toast is a proud superfat sponsor. It?s going to be an amazing weekend of fat joy, with speakers, movement classes, the Philly Plus Swap and more. All the info and tickets here.

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Mecca on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter or X

Feelin by Bettina Judd

Yellowface by R.F. Kuang

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your September/October Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. We?re getting into the tyranny of portion control, meal trains, and whether Virginia's house is really that clean. 

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber. 

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctors, or any kind of healthcare providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Philly Fat Con

Priestess of the Indulgence Gospel t-shirts!!!

(Proceeds go to National Network of Abortion Funds)

It?s Been A Minute on pumpkin spice

those New York Times recipe commenters

do older people eat less

car sushi essay for the New York Times

Eileen Fisher lantern pants

Monday pants from Free Label (also Loretta pant and Sophie slacks)

Universal Standard?every year we debate how to pronounce ?ponte.?

Corinne's Universal Standard jeans

Vejas

Reebok Club C 85

Sabahs

Boston clogs

Puzzle set-up: a pretty cute chair + a little table + puzzle table

This American Ex-Wife: How I Ended My Marriage and Started My Life

this hat

face shield trend

Virginia's favorite sun hat

Griefcatpartytime on Instagram

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

?Today Virginia is chatting with Katy Geraghty. Katy is an actor in New York City, most recently seen as Little Red in Into The Woods on Broadway as well as the national tour. We asked Katy to come on the show, because she knows firsthand what it?s like to be a fat kid in theater, and a fat professional working actor in theater. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Philly Fat Con is coming up! And Burnt Toast is a proud superfat sponsor. It?s going to be an amazing weekend of fat joy, with speakers, movement classes, the Philly Plus Swap and more. All the info and tickets here.

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Katy on Instagram and TikTok

Katy as Little Red in Into The Woods

Sister Act

anti-fatness in sports

Jo Malone is expensive AF but Katy loves her Nectarine Blossom and Honey cologne. 

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

?Today Virginia is chatting with Dr. Devorah Heitner, author of the brand new book, Growing Up in Public: Coming of Age in a Digital World. She?s also the author of Screenwise: Helping Kids Thrive (and Survive) in Their Digital World and has a PhD in media technology and society from Northwestern University and has taught at Northwestern and DePaul.

GIVEAWAY

In lieu of taking our usual guest honorarium, Devorah asked me to host a book giveaway, which is so much fun. We have four copies of Growing Up in Public from Split Rock Books, who can ship them anywhere in the United States. To enter, just make sure you are on the free or paid list for the Burnt Toast newsletter, and then enter here. We?ll pick four winners at random next Thursday, September 28.

And! If you order Growing Up in Public from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she and her guests give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Devorah's Instagram, Substack and website for speaking engagements. 

Dr. Stephanie Zerwas

Great safer sexting tips from Sameer Hinduja and Justin W. Patchin

Pageboy by Elliot Page

Skylight Calendar

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with Phoebe Wahl, an award winning illustrator, surface designer, and author of several books, including the brand new illustrated young adult novel Phoebe?s Diary.

If you order Phoebe?s Diary from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes?including the director's cut of this conversation where VA and AHP answer all of your gardening questions. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Sonya?s Chickens

Little Witch Hazel

The Blue House

Backyard Fairies

fat in picture books

Strega Nona

journals from LEUCHTTURM1917

journals from Hand Book

Rotring pens

Pentel markers 

Kuretake brush pens

Daniel Smith watercolors

Lauren Leavell

I don?t care about your diet sticker 

Phoebe on Instagram

Phoebe's shop

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with Amy Palanjian, creator of Yummy Toddler Food and author of the brand new cookbook, Dinnertime SOS: 100 Sanity-Saving Meals Parents and Kids of All Ages Will Actually Want to Eat. We get into what makes family dinner a hellscape, diet culture in kid food, mom friends, and more. 

If you order Dinnertime SOS from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes?including the director's cut of this conversation where VA and AHP answer all of your gardening questions. 

PS. No podcast next week; we'll see you after Labor Day!

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Division of Responsibility

family meal planning

Comfort Food episode about weaning Beatrix off bottles

Our ebook

Chocolate Almond Butter

zucchini banana bread

Amy's rice noodle salad

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

t's time for your August Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. We?re getting into power lifting, fruit rage, menstrual taboos and YouTubers telling you how to eat.  

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber ? subscriptions are ON SALE till Saturday August 19, so get your 20% discount now! 

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctosr, or any kind of health care providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER 

OTHER LINKS

last month?s Indulgence Gospel

our conversation with Martinus Evans

Corinne's writing on power lifting

Mia O?Malley beach chair highlight

fat friendly chairs  from Target

study on athletic performance and menstrual cycles

 Serena Williams was winning tennis matches while pregnant.

Virginia's menstrual taboos piece for Scientific American

Amy Palanjian

Wray

Geneva dress.

our New York City weekend,

Tiny Dollhouse store

Shiny By Nature socks for fat calves 

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

Today Virginia is chatting with Mary Carney, the founder of Towel, a new size inclusive lifestyle brand. Because a towel that doesn't wrap around your body is just a classic example of anti-fat bias in action. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes?including the director's cut of this conversation where VA and AHP answer all of your gardening questions. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Towel

Meet the towels: Ava, Joni, and Gemma

Towel on Instagram 

BT episode on Old Navy's failed plus size promises

Mia O?Malley on making sure your life fits your body

we have mentioned chairs

Really Big Towel

the viral pajamas

Maddeningly, Virginia's jumpsuit seems to have sold out right before publishing, BUT there is a really good buy / sell / trade group for Universal Standard on Facebook. 

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

You?re listening to Burnt Toast! This is the podcast about anti-fat bias, diet culture, parenting, and health. I am Virginia Sole Smith.

Today I am chatting with Lindsey Guile. Lindsey is an Associate Professor of Art at Dutchess Community College, and a body and fat liberation artist. 

Lindsey uses large format drawing and ceramics to explore concepts of self image, body image and self worth through the lens of contemporary feminist theory. Her work has been exhibited at The Arnot Museum, The Dorsky Museum, The Birke Art Gallery, The Mary Cosgrove Dolphin Gallery, Untitled Space Gallery, Women?s Work Gallery, The Williamsburg Art & Historical Center, and so many others. Lindsey currently lives in Poughkeepsie, and is someone I know locally through fat activism work here in the Hudson Valley. She is awesome!

Seeing Lindsey?s eight foot tall drawings of fat bodies in person was one of the most powerful experiences I?ve had since I started writing and thinking about bodies in the way that I do. We are putting lots of images in the show notes, so definitely check them out and definitely follow her on Instagram. But know that these images are not doing her work justice. The actual size and scale of these drawings is something you have to experience in real life.

Lindsey is a total delight. I love talking to her about her process, about how she thinks about this work, and about the power of drawing bodies. So here?s Lindsey!

PS. If you?re enjoying the podcast, make sure you?re following us (it?s free!) in your podcast player! We?re on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, and Pocket Casts! And while you?re there, please leave us a rating or review. (We like 5 stars!)

Episode 105 Transcript

Lindsey

I am a self-described feminist, body neutral, fat liberationist, body liberationist, figurative artist. I know there are a lot of terms there, but there is a lot that I want to embrace. I work mainly in large-scale drawings that explore the idea of femininity from the feminine gaze. I have people who model for me, they can be clothed or nude. It?s totally up to them. I create an atmosphere that?s really based on consent. And I?ve been doing this regularly for about five years, although the series started about 10 years ago.

Virginia

Bring us back to 10 years ago. What made you say ?I not only want to draw bodies, I not only want to draw people, but I would like to draw them eight feet tall. I would like them to take up all of the space??

Lindsey

How often do feminine folks get to just take up space unapologetically? That?s one thing that really stuck in my brain in terms of size, is that I wanted them to really just command a room?quietly though, because I do draw versus paint. And I think painting, while wonderful, is a lot louder. I think there can be such a power and sometimes subtlety to drawing.

But where it started was me white knuckling my way through my own recovery from diet culture and disordered eating which was just so difficult for me, especially when I was in my Master?s of Fine Arts program. I remember laying on the floor in my studio apartment having a panic attack, knowing that I could either continue to engage in diet culture or I could pass my classes. It took up so much of my brain power to do all that. And it got to the point where it just was not sustainable. I finally had to be like, I can?t do this anymore. I started following some folks online who were fat and I was like, look, these people are doing this. It?s okay, I can let this go. 

I?ve always been a figurative artist. I love drawing the human figure. So I was like, ?You know what, maybe I need to draw myself nude.? I had always been interested in being a nude model. But my body shape wasn?t what people drew when I was a student. So it seemed very cut off to me. One of my friends was like, ?Hey, I think you need to draw yourself.? So I drew myself, collarbone to thigh. It actually hangs in my bedroom now, that drawing. And it was difficult, because I was dealing with my own body image issues?but then people were coming into my studio like, ?Oh my gosh, like, look at the draping on the stomach from all the weight fluctuations. This is really beautiful. And this is such a great drawing. I love how you?re honoring that body.?

I didn?t tell people it was me.

Virginia

Oh, that?s interesting. So you?re really getting their unfiltered response. They weren?t like, ?Oh, it?s Lindsey so I should say something nice to Lindsey about Lindsey.? 

Lindsey

Yeah. Then it was like a light bulb that went off, which was: I can use the system and the hierarchy of art to start flipping the narrative and draw fat bodies. And figures that are not just fat?although I think a lot of larger people come to me because I am larger, and it?s a safe space to start to tell people?s stories in that way. Also, having drawn myself and understanding how difficult it was to look at myself in that way, I think it gave me extra compassion for the people coming in, where I know this is a very scary thing for them to do.

Virginia

Since you brought up drawing yourself, I?m curious to hear how that experience changed how you relate to your body? 

Lindsey

So I joke with people that the only time I?ve ever been small was when I was born because I was super early. I?m also just shy of six feet tall, so I?ve never fit into a certain beauty narrative. And even when I was the most engaged in diet culture, I still have always been plus-sized. To see myself there in this drawing and to see it as an artist and as the person who drew it was really profound. I did my first drawing of me on a large scale in 2019 and it was really nerve wracking to see that in a gallery and people interacting with it. I remember actually it was in a college I teach at, one of my students was like, ?Does that look like the person?? and I felt like saying ?Well, I don?t know, does it??

I guess it?s a little weird to put yourself out there, but I?ve learned to look at myself with the eyes of an artist rather than the eyes of the patriarchy and diet culture. It?s taught me a lot of kindness towards myself. I?m not saying I don?t struggle with it, but it?s given me so much more.

Virginia

It feels like a way of reclaiming your body.

Lindsey

One thousand percent. That?s actually a big theme for a lot of people I work with: Reclaiming their body in some way, shape, or form. Actually, I was telling a friend this morning I just started a new drawing of myself. I?d wanted to do one when I hit 40 and then I just wasn?t in the space to do it. But I?ve done a lot recently with therapy. I got a bunch of tattoos, a nose ring. I was like, ?I think I?m ready to tell that story of me again.?

Virginia

I was just thinking how tattoos are often another way people reclaim their body. And so many of your subjects have tattoos and you draw tattoos really beautifully.

Lindsey

The first tattooed model I drew, that?s specifically what she talked about. She?s a larger woman and she talked a lot about how people would stare at her and she decided that she was going to give them something to stare at. She has so many tattoos. In fact, it?s funny?she?s a dear friend now?she?ll be like, ?Lindsey, I have more tattoos. When do you want to draw me again?? She?s also a tattoo apprentice so it?s like wrapping around.

Virginia

Let?s talk about your process a little bit. I don?t speak Fine Art particularly fluently, but I do think there?s an image we have of figure drawing of the model being just this sort of amorphous body, right? It?s like men painting women because they?re beautiful and nothing else. They?re not people apart from the bodies. But your process is so different from that. 

Lindsey

I?ve been working as a figurative artist for for over 20 years and I?ve seen exactly what you?re talking about. I?ve even joked with my students that [the model is] a still life that breathes. And I realized I was still objectifying our models which, obviously was a problem.

With my process, I usually use social media and I?m like, ?Hey, I?m looking for models.? I explain the whole process, that you don?t have to be nude. It?s consent driven, so you can tell me?I had a model once who was like, I?m okay with being fully nude but I don?t want you to show my vulva. And I was like, perfect, not a problem, we?ll pose around it.

So they reach out to me, we set up, we usually have a little bit of a chat. And I utilize the college?s drawing studio to photograph because I just don?t have room in my studio at home. And while they are up on a podium, that?s more for just so I can get the right angles. I try to create this atmosphere that is just really respectful.

Usually, when they come in, they get to the level of dress or undress that they?re comfortable with. We get ready to start and I say, tell me about the story of your body. What are those things that have influenced you? They know that they can tell me anything. But they can also say, ?Please don?t utilize this in an artist talk.? So I do tell them, ?I?m going to give talks. What can I say? And what can?t I say?? And we go from there.

Some models are like ?I don?t know how to pose? and I say I just want something really natural, what feels comfortable to you? How do you like to stand? How do you like to sit? And a lot of times my goal when I first start in talking with them and just getting them comfortable, is so that they stopped noticing the camera.

Virginia

I have a similar thing with hoping they don?t notice the tape recorder, so I can relate to that. 

Lindsey

And it?s also important to know that if at any point it becomes very emotional for them, which it definitely has, that I will actually put the camera down. Because I?m not there to exploit feelings. It?s happened a few times where a model was just so overcome with that moment that I set the camera down and they said ?You can keep photographing.? I?m like, I want you to have this moment for you.

So it usually takes about an hour to photograph. I zoom around, like I?m on the floor, I?m on a roll-y stool. I photograph all the models from below so that when you as a viewer are in a gallery and they?re larger than life, they look down on you. It?s very deliberate to put the viewers in a position of submission to the figures. It?s usually pretty subtle because I don?t want to smack the viewer side of the head with it. But I really want them to feel it.

Virginia

I wonder is that vulnerable for your subjects? Because I?m just thinking of how women are trained to photograph ourselves and from below is never the angle that we?re told is the right angle.

Lindsey

No one?s really ever said much because I do explain why this is. They can also say, ?I?m really insecure about this part of me or that,? and we?ll work around it in photographing. But I can also say, ?well, let let me try this shot and then I can let you see if you want to see.? I think I?ve only had three models who actually wanted to see the photographs of them. Oftentimes they?re like, ?I trust you to do what you do.? And we?ll go from there.

Then I choose the image that I draw from. I haven?t had anyone complain yet because I usually find an image that felt like our session. I try to keep the technical aspects of a drawing out of it and just think, what did this feel like for them? Were they really tentative? Were they just really empowered? Were they somewhere in between? And go for it.

There have been a few times where I?m photographing and I knew the shot the minute I got it. There was a model, she?d model for me once, and she was like, ?Can I model for you again?? And I said, ?Yeah, let?s do it.? She came in. She?s like, ?I don?t want to talk.? Okay. She was like, ?I have some emotions I have to get out and I know you?re a safe person. I?m okay with you photographing it. And I?m just gonna move around. I?m probably going to cry. I just want to get it out.?

Virginia

Wow.

Lindsey

 And she did it. And I knew the minute I took the photograph, it was just incredibly powerful.

I work primarily in drawing because I feel that charcoal especially is just so beautiful. It?s very tactile. I wanted them to feel the hand of the artist in there. 

One thing that comes up is when people are like ?Oh, people who don?t love themselves, they must stand in front of the mirror and like shake their stomachs,? or something like that. For me, it was very different. For me, I disassociated from myself. I just pretended I wasn?t there from the neck down. 

Virginia

Prior to drawing yourself?

Lindsey

Prior to drawing myself. So I don?t go to hyper realistic drawing because I feel like I?ve been given such a gift by the people who model for me. I want there to be a sense of touch, that they?ve been loved and cared for, this image that they?ve given, and that?s one of the most important parts to me. That they know that in this space that they?ve been cherished and their stories are so important. And charcoal does that for me. I think it?s just very eloquent and can do a lot without telling people how to feel at least in the way that I handle it.

Virginia

I was going to say there?s such a softness to your work, which isn?t quite right. There is softness to the bodies. The work itself feels very strong to me, but there?s a loving quality to it that comes through. I?m guessing that?s what you?re talking about here with the medium and wanting to be clear that this isn?t a photo of somebody?s body, even though you also are amazingly realistic. Like, the way you draw people?s tattoos is mind blowing. There is a level of insane precision here, just so we?re clear. But yes, it is clearly an artist?s view of someone, not a photo of someone.

Lindsey

I love it when people bring up the tattoos. My piece ?Brazen? is of the woman I mentioned earlier who talked about using her body to reclaim tattoos. I have three drawings of folks who are heavily tattooed. One I just finished this summer [above] and it probably was the most nerve wracking thing for me to figure out artistically. I thought I had it with the first two drawings I did. And then the one I just finished, the title is called ?Unwavering? if people want to look it up. She has so many tattoos. Usually I draw the form of the body first, and then I add the tattoos on. I had to draw the tattoos first.

Virginia

Oh, wow. You put her body around her tattoos. That?s fascinating.

Lindsey

And I was like, how do I do this? You?re drawing other people?s artwork.

Virginia

So no pressure there. 

Lindsey

Yeah, no pressure, no pressure. And it?s on a 3D form. And all three of those models are tattoo artists.

Virginia

So they would know if you miss something. 

Lindsey

And they?re all good friends of mine. And I every now and then I?ll message them, like I did the model I just finished, I was like, ?I kind of guessed.? She?s like, ?I won?t tell anybody.? I?m like, ?Okay, perfect.?

Virginia

Let?s talk a little bit about the response to your work. I?m curious both what the models think but then more broadly, when you?re doing shows and showing your work, what kind of reactions do you get?

Lindsey

You know, overwhelmingly positive. I have not had a model say, ?I don?t like it.? Probably one of my favorites was early on in the series, I had worked from a former student and she came to a show early to see the piece. She was crying in front of the piece and she said, ?you made me look beautiful.? And I said, ?I didn?t make you anything you aren?t already.? It?s funny because I?m a bit of an awkward person, socially awkward.

Virginia

I mean, I disagree, but keep going.

Lindsey

I project a lot of confidence. Years of working retail, right? But inwardly, sometimes I?m screaming ?I don?t know how to interact.?

But I love it when people are like, ?I want to show this to my friend or my daughter,? or something like that.

There?s been a few times though, where I?ve gotten a few like ?ew, gross.? I had a small solo show here in Poughkeepsie and I was watching the gallery and a gentleman came in, and probably gentleman is a kind word here. 

Virginia

Generous. 

Lindsey

And he didn?t see me. He was like, ?ugh, ugh,? and he kept making these gross sounds. Then he looked at me, looked me up and down, and said, ?you must be the artist.? And I was like, ?Yes, I am.? And he was like, ?Well, I wouldn?t hang these in my bedroom. Why can?t you draw normal people?? And of course, this is the town I work in and I?m kind of a public figure so I had to be very nice, which hurt me. 

Virginia

I love that he thought art should be drawn for him to?hang in his bedroom. That?s such an interesting way to think about art. Do you know what I mean? That?s how entitled he feels to these bodies. Interesting.

Lindsey

He was like, ?I wouldn?t want to wake up to them.? And I?m like, ?well, I don?t want you to wake up to my drawings regardless.?

Virginia

Sir, I would not want to wake up to you.

Lindsey

Someone didn?t say it to me, they said it to someone related to the gallery, that they thought my work was pornography.

Virginia

Just because some people are naked?

Lindsey

Yeah, just because the nudity. And actually I go out of my way to not portray anything overtly sexual. It?s just not what I?m focusing on. So part of me wants to be like, ?Wow, your porn must be really boring.?

Virginia

Not a lot happens in your porn.

Lindsey

To each their own!

Virginia

I mean, I guess there is a group of people who just think nudity equals pornography no matter what. Do they not ever go to Italy? Did they not hear of the Renaissance? I don?t understand because we have centuries upon centuries of naked people in art. But I wonder if there are some folks who are especially quick to go there because you are showing are fat bodies?

Lindsey

I think so. Because the work does make people uncomfortable. Because they?re not Photoshopped, because they?re not the beauty ideal. I think it forces a lot of people to confront their own biases. So it might be an easy way to say, ?This is inappropriate.? Hopefully those are the people that even afterwards think about the work and let it kind of sit in the back of their head and maybe changes a little bit of what they think. You know, that?s all I can hope.

Virginia

This is like the same with the trolls who message me about my work saying, ?I don?t think fat chicks are attractive.? And it?s so interesting to me, because nothing I write about has to do with whether men find fat woman attractive. I think it taps into the fact that there are some men who do find fat women attractive and yet feel like they can?t be public about it. So then they have to turn that negatively onto fat women. I said that, awkwardly, but you know what I mean? 

Lindsey

It?s their denial.

It?s interesting that the few people I?ve known that have said this about my images being pornographic are older women.

Virginia

Oh, so it?s tapping into their own stuff.

Lindsey

I think a lot of the way that they grew up, that thinness was ideal, you got it through whatever means necessary. To then see people really living in their own bodies, and not just in bodies, but then modeling in art, and nude. It challenges a lot of those preconceived notions.

Virginia

This is making me think of something you told me previously, I can?t remember if it was a professor of yours or someone who commented on a pose, and was like, ?Oh, she?s so ashamed of her body because she?s covering.? Do you want to tell that story? 

Lindsey

Yeah, it was about my first large drawing of myself, actually. When I took the photo, I?d cross my arms and one is kind of underneath my chest and one?s kind of going over top and it?s meant to be like this hug. It was more of like, ?It?s going to be okay? for myself. And because I?m busty, I kind of caught my bust in my arm. I remember my professor was like, ?Well, that?s not correct anatomically.? And I?m like, ?Pretty sure it is.?

 And she was like, ?well, I feel like this figure is just ashamed of herself. And like, she?s sitting in the mirror hiding.? And I?m like, ?This is a very kind of loving hug. And she?s not covering anything unless you count the sternum, right?? The stomach was there. The vulva is there. The breasts are there. And I said, ?I really think that you?re projecting your own insecurities onto my figure.? And everybody was just kind of quiet. 

Virginia

I think they knew. I mean, the first time I saw your pieces in person, you were there? I cried. And, I was thinking before we started recording, like, why did I cry and what it was. It felt just very visceral. It was so healing to be in the presence of fat, beautiful bodies like that, and feel the power that they held. But I can see, for someone who?s in a different place with fatness with their own body, it?s going to bring that up and be really challenging and that?s also really good. 

Lindsey

That?s exactly what I want. I want people to go in there and really start investigating for themselves and reevaluating how they see themselves and see others and how they judge others.

I generally don?t care what people think about my artwork. Took a long, long time to get over that.

Virginia

That sounds very evolved of you. I?m impressed.

Lindsey

Well I kind of had to, because I?m a very sensitive person and I want people to like me. But it took a long time for me to realize that this is what I want to do. People are not going to like it. But there are people who it?s going to move. 

Virginia

Tell us a little bit about your teaching process, and how this comes into play.

Lindsey

I?m an associate professor of visual art at Dutchess Community College. In particular, I teach the figure drawing class. You know, when we look at art history?which, I love art history, but a lot of it is women drawn by men, women in a very subservient position in the pieces?it?s very much drawn from the male gaze. So I?m very aware of that. One of the things I do when I teach the class is, I focus a lot on bringing in contemporary figurative artists. I tell my students that this represent sthe wonderful diversity that we have in the class.

But also, in many ways, I take body liberation and stretch it out to not just include weight. The classroom is, to me, fully inclusive, to the best of my ability and I will keep learning. We have trans and non binary models, we talk about using language beyond the binary. I talk with my models ahead of time, and I say, ?when I talk about your figure, and I?m going to have to, what terms are you most comfortable with?? But then it?s also making sure I have a lot of body diversity, as much as I can. Though sometimes you?re limited by just the model roster. 

I?ve also been known to say like, ?Okay, we?re looking at this model, and this is how this anatomy shows, but it?s going to show on someone different like me who is larger.? And it neutralizes this idea of fat and largeness. They seem to respond really well, which has been great. For a while, we didn?t have many curvy models. We had one of our long-standing models, she can only model once a semester. She came in and after she left, the next class, they were like, When is she coming back? We love her. You can see so many different things.?

Virginia

What a powerful way to give them an appreciation of body diversity.

Lindsey

I used to be very insecure about my chest. And I saw how chests come in all shapes and sizes and I?m no longer self conscious about that anymore. In fact, I?m a nude model myself.

Virginia

So do you do that for other artist friends? How does that work?

Lindsey

I model up at Woodstock School of Art in the summers. I just tell them when I?m prepared and I model for their classes and their open studios. So I get to work with a lot of different artists there. 

Virginia

What is that like, the experience of nude modeling? It feels like it?s probably a lot more work than people realize.

Lindsey

Yes, I joke that all I have to do is sit still look pretty, right? Or just sit still. I don?t have to look pretty. But sitting still can be so hard.

Virginia

So hard! Oh, I?m terrible at it. I would not last five minutes.

Lindsey

Usually you get a break every 25 minutes. But if you go into a 25 minute pose oftentimes you?re like, ?Is my leg still there? Oh, no, my leg is there. It really hurts.? Or, ?I have sweat running down my back, or my nose itches.?

Virginia

The nose itches would be killer. I bet you regret a lot of poses like 18 minutes in. You?re like, this was not the pose.

Lindsey

You learn the capabilities of your body as you?ve been doing it. But sometimes I?m like, ?Oh, yeah, I totally put my hand there and it?s supporting all my weight.? I said it?d be fine for 20 minutes and then like 10 minutes in and you?re like, I?m going to die. 

Virginia

I don?t have a wrist anymore. It?s fine.

Lindsey

But it?s also very empowering because it is a safe space. There?s only been one instance where I?ve been modeling and someone was clearly upset that they had a plus size model. And I just stared them down. Because he wasn?t drawing!

Virginia

Oh, he was just sitting there sulking?

Lindsey

Yeah, he was sitting there sulking. And that is not acceptable. As someone who also teaches the course, you do work. I never stare people down because I don?t want artists to get nervous. But I stared him down until he started working.

Virginia

I enjoy that greatly. 

Butter

Lindsey

I hope it?s okay to just give a shout out. And I think it?s to tattoos.

Virginia

Yay. That?s fun!

Lindsey

The way we reclaim our bodies with them, and the inspiration they?ve given me. Particularly a shop that I absolutely love, if that?s alright, is Guts'n Glory in Rosendale. That?s where those three tattoo artists work. They?ve given me such amazing work and made me feel so much more myself and empowered me. It?s an amazing shop. There are queer folks there. It?s just absolutely beautiful. So they?re my butter.

Virginia

I love that. I do not have any tattoos. Yet, I should say. Life is long, we?ll see. I?ve just never been able to commit, but I have a deep appreciation for them. I think that?s the overthinking thing I can really relate to. I?m like, ?They?re so wonderful I couldn?t possibly pick one!? Which is, you know, anyway, we can unpack that later. But I love hearing what they do for people and their relationship with their body. So, that?s such a great butter.

I was also overthinking what my butter should be today, when I realized it?s very obvious. Since I am talking to Lindsey Guile my butter is ?Valiant? by Lindsey Guile, [above] which is the most incredible drawing that I just got from your ?Unapologetic? series.

This is a present that Dan and my family all went in on together, as a congratulations for my book. So it?s really special that they wanted to do something nice to celebrate the book. But also the fact that they picked Lindsey?s artwork and then it led me to get to know Lindsey?I?m so excited about it. I?m currently on the hunt to find a framer who can frame something this large.

Lindsey

It?s only almost 80 inches. It?s fine. 

Virginia

I emailed my local frame shop who are so lovely and do such good work, and they were like, ?We are not set up for that.? But you?ve given me names of a couple places. So this is my Butter Project. I?m going on a little framing odyssey with it. And you came over and we picked the wall in my house that it?s going to hang on. It will not be done by the time this episode airs, but I will definitely do a follow up when I have it in the house so everyone can see it. It?s just amazing. And there is an incredible space tattoo on Hannah. It was one of the details I really loved about it. And I just love her expression.

Lindsey

I?m so glad, too, because Hannah was fantastic to work with as well. And one of the few times I?ve actually gotten to talk with someone who occupies this body liberation space.

Virginia

We should say the model is Hannah Noel Smith, who is a therapist and fat activist who specializes in eating disorder recovery. She?s also a buddy of mine from the Body Liberation Hiking Club.

Did you get to know her through drawing her? Or how did that work?

Lindsey

So I had an artist residency at the Blue Mountain Center and I put out a call on social media that was looking for local models and she got right ahold of me. It was really funny because when we met, she was like, ?I found you shared by another fat creator.? And then was like, ?Oh, my gosh, you?re in Poughkeepsie? I?m in Poughkeepsie!?

Virginia

Smallest world. Well, it is really exciting because the fat activism community is, of course, large and spread out all over. But here in the Hudson Valley, we don?t have so many of us. It?s been fun to start to come together a little more. 

Lindsey

I think all my friends are like, ?Yes, we know Virginia, you posted about her.? I?m like, ?She?s really cool.?

Virginia

Same, same. Definitely a mutual admiration society.

Lindsey, thank you for doing this. Why don?t we wrap up telling folks where we can follow you? And how we can support your work?

Lindsey

First of all, again, thank you for having me. This has been absolutely delightful.

You can follow me on Instagram at Lindsey Guile Studio and I have a website. In terms of support, I have no shows right now. I?m working right now to show later. I do have two solo shows coming up in the spring of 2024, one here in the Hudson Valley, one out in the Rochester area. So if you follow me and you can come to an opening, that?s absolutely wonderful. And if you ever have an interest in buying something, just send me an email. I?d love to have a shop, but I already have a full time job.

Virginia

Well, when you have details on the show, we?ll put them in the newsletter and make sure folks know and go. And I can?t wait to go to the next one. 

Lindsey

Thank you so much. 

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by me, Virginia Sole-Smith. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter.

Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing and also co-hosts mailbag episodes!

The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.

Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.

Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.

Today Virginia is chatting with Anne Helen Petersen, author of four books and co-host of the Work Appropriate podcast, who also writes the newsletter Culture Study?and its recently launched little sister, Garden Study. We're exploring how gardening can be part of perfectionism and productivity culture?or its radical undoing. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes?including the director's cut of this conversation where VA and AHP answer all of your gardening questions. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

the reader survey

the Sunset handbook

Monty Don as ?gardening god? and fashion icon

clematis pruning groups

growing vegetables for a lot of diet culture reasons

Great Dixter and the Vita Sackville West garden

The Optimization Sinkhole

renovation culture

diet culture happening in garden culture

Duluth Trading Co overalls

overall shorts from Target

a gardeners tool belt

A Good House for Children by Kate Collins

throw pillows from Anchal Project

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your July Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here. We?re getting into power lifting, sugar-y breakfast cereals, long hair rules and lots of fat swim talk.  

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctosr, or any kind of health care providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

Welcome to Part 2 of our two-parter on Ultra Processed Foods! Virginia is chatting with Laura Thomas, PhD, a Registered Nutritionist who specializes in responsive feeding and anti-diet, body affirming nutrition. Her work centers on helping parents and families end inter-generation dieting and body shame, and work towards a greater sense of embodiment and ease in their relationship with food. She runs the Substack and podcast Can I Have Another Snack?, and is the author of two books; Just Eat It and How to Just Eat It.

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes.

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Part 1 of this series 

Laura's three part series on UPFs

Virginia on processed foods here and there

responsive feeding

episode with Naureen Hunani

Laura Thomas on sugar

Michelle Obama's legacy on kids and food

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Welcome to Part 1 of our two-parter on Ultra Processed Foods! Virginia is chatting with Laura Thomas, PhD, a Registered Nutritionist who specializes in responsive feeding and anti-diet, body affirming nutrition. Her work centers on helping parents and families end inter-generation dieting and body shame, and work towards a greater sense of embodiment and ease in their relationship with food. She runs the Substack and podcast Can I Have Another Snack?, and is the author of two books; Just Eat It and How to Just Eat It.

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes.

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Laura's three part series on UPFs

Virginia on processed foods here and there

labor rights violations for Amy?s workers

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for your June Indulgence Gospel! Corinne is here and we're celebrating our 100th episode. We've got answers to your questions about Ozempic, dahlias and leggings, plus a lil' hate mail and of course, Butter.  

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to go paid. Subscriptions are on sale this week, so it's just $4 per month or $40 for the year! Click here for the discount.

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctosr, or any kind of health care providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & BOOKS

The Wellness Trap

Virginia's first book

OTHER LINKS

@selltradeplus

Target linen shorts

amazing local flower store Parcel

Health at Every Size health sheet for liver conditions

our episode with Christy Harrison

Marci Evans

Emily Fonnesbeck

the episode where Mia O'Malley came on

jeans science

Glennon Doyle, on how the clothes were policing her body

Universal Standard next to naked leggings

Roya leggings

I make videos where I eat snacks while I read them

a video with my car full of plants

now to enjoy my 25 cent tomato

Solomon?s Seal

A Way to Garden

Garden Study

Gatorade cucumber lime flavor

Nuun electrolyte tablets

@theblondemule

Joy the Baker

a lovely shot of a bunch of books

this little cart

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

Today Virginia is chatting with Kyle Ganson, PhD, an assistant professor at the University of Toronto?s Factor-Inwentash Faculty of Social Work who studies eating disorders in boys and young men. This is an episode a lot of you have been asking for?we don?t talk enough about boys and how they struggle with all of these issues. 

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes.

Content Warning: We talk about specific disordered eating behaviors and eating disorder symptoms in this episode. If any of that is going to be tricky for you, feel free to skip.

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Chapter Nine of Fat Talk

Canadian Study of Adolescent Health Behaviors

Jessica Wilson on Burnt Toast

Cloud Cuckoo Land

Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with Jo Piazza, best selling author, journalist, and podcast creator. You might know her from her awesome podcast Under the Influence, or her very excellent Substack Over the Influence. And her new book, co-authored with Christine Pride entitled You Were Always Mine, just came out this month.

Remember, if you order Jo's book (or any books we mention on the pod!) from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. This week only, take 20% off your subscription! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

@jopiazzaauthor

Jo's other books:

We Are Not Like Them

Fitness Junkie

Other book recs:

Jasmine Guillory?s books

Rosaline Palmer Takes the Cake

Big Girl by Mecca Jamilah Sullivan

Get a Life, Chloe Brown by Talia Hibbert

Our Little Kitchen by Jillian Tamaki

Starfish by Lisa Fipps

Bodies Are Cool and Dancing at the Pity Party by Tyler Feder

Misc & Butter

what do I do with my best friend who?s dieting and I?m sick of hearing about it?

Navigating Chick-fil-A

?Those who don?t cook don?t get to complain.? 

the video for Waterloo

 Weed Family Orchards

The Whispers by Ashley Audrain

ice cream bowls from East Fork

style section cover story about East Fork

The Mugs

the bitty bowls 

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with Martinus Evans, the author of the brand new book Slow AF Run Club: The Ultimate Guide for Anyone Who Wants to Run. He runs Slow AF Run Club, a running community for folks to run in the bodies they have, and is @300poundsandrunning on Instagram.

Remember, if you order Martinus's book (or any books we mention on the pod!) from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. This week only, take 20% off your subscription! 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Martinus on the cover of Runner?s World

Martinus naked in Men?s Health

Pioneers Run Crew

Lauren Leavell

Black Girl Sunscreen

Hoka shoes

Slow AF Run Club Merch (sizes XS to 6X!)

the season of book launch

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with Elise Hu, the author of the brand new book Flawless: Lessons in Looks and Culture from the K-Beauty Capital, which explores the intersections of beauty culture and diet culture in South Korea. If you have ever purchased a sheet mask or a babyfoot peel or any other K beauty products or if you?ve just been aware of the absolute phenomenon of Korean beauty culture, you need to read Flawless.

Remember, if you order Elise's book (or any books we mention on the pod!) from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

TED Talks Daily

babyfoot peel

mothers get held responsible for their children?s weight

but what if I just want to lose weight?

Heather Widdows

Escape the Corset 

the squiggly noodles from Trader Joe?s

 new spring Birkenstocks.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with Cole Kazdin, author of What's Eating Us: Women, Food, and the Epidemic of Body Anxiety, which explodes a lot of the problems with our current eating disorder treatment system.

Remember, if you order Cole's book (or any books we mention on the pod!) from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Shira Rosenbluth

For anyone who needs to recover into a fat body, you?re asking them to sacrifice the safety of their eating disorder in the sense that it?s harder to exist in this world in a fat body than in a thinner one.

Gloria Lucas

just journal or do a crossword puzzle

backlash against the diagnosis of atypical anorexia

a very good piece about atypical anorexia

Virginia's story on Kurbo

Madeline Donahue

Lindsey Guile

Cole on Instagram

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

Today Virginia is chatting with fat rights advocate Tigress Osborn. Tigress is Chair of the Board of NAAFA, The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, and helping to lead the Campaign for Size Freedom, which just scored a huge victory in New York City and there is more to come. 

Remember, if you order books we mention in today's pod from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

Campaign for Size Freedom

NAAFA 

FLARE

PHX Fat Force

 Smith College magazine profile of Tigress

Clothestime

The Overweight Lovers In The House & Heavy D

Dante Earle Tubbs from Contrast Photos

The Crown Act

Tipping the Scales of Justice: Fighting Weight Based Discrimination

Virginia's piece for Slate in 2021

International Weight Stigma Conference

Last year Burnt Toast worked with The States Project

give to NAAFA

he Association for Size Diversity And Health

NOLOSE

sign the petition

Wondermine

Black Fae Day

@IoftheTigress.

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet, body liberation journalism. 

It's time for the May Indulgence Gospel! Instead of answering your questions this month, we're reading Virginia's hate mail. Buckle up! 

If you are already a paid subscriber, you?ll have this entire episode in your podcast feed and access to the entire transcript in your inbox and on the Burnt Toast Substack.

If you are not a paid subscriber, you'll only get the first chunk. To hear the whole conversation or read the whole transcript, you'll need to go paid. It's just $5 a month or $50 for the year?and you get the first week free!

Also, don't forget to order Fat Talk: Parenting In the Age of Diet Culture! Get your signed copy now from Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the USA). You can also order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, Kobo or anywhere you like to buy books. (Or get the UK edition or the audiobook!) 

Disclaimer: Virginia and Corinne are humans with a lot of informed opinions. They are not nutritionists, therapists, doctosr, or any kind of health care providers. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions they give are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & BOOKS

_____ Is a Breakfast Food by Marjory Sweet

The Unhoneymooners by Christina Lauren

The Ex Talk by Rachel Lynn Solomon

Sabrina Strings? Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia

Da?Shaun Harrison Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness as Anti-Blackness

chapter one of FAT TALK

Order any of these from the Burnt Toast Bookshop for 10 percent off if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

OTHER LINKS

@SellTradePlus

The Cut did a profile

Fresh Air interview

the face shield

interview with Aubrey Gordon

yes, fat marathon runners

very popular article in The Atlantic about how eating ice cream is associated with lower rates of Type Two Diabetes

a tweet about Elizabeth Warren

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting anti-diet body liberation journalism.

Today Virginia is chatting with her longtime friend and colleague Christy Harrison, MPH, RD! Christy is a journalist, registered dietitian, and certified Intuitive Eating counselor. She?s the author of Anti-Diet: Reclaim Your Time, Money, Well-Being, and Happiness Through Intuitive Eating. And today we are talking about Christy?s new book, The Wellness Trap: Break Free from Diet Culture, Disinformation, and Dubious Diagnoses, and Find Your True Well-Being.

And remember, if you order The Wellness Trap or Anti-Diet from the Burnt Toast Bookshop, you can get 10 percent off that purchase if you also order (or have already ordered!) Fat Talk! (Just use the code FATTALK at checkout.)

If you want more conversations like this one, please rate and review us in your podcast player! And become a paid Burnt Toast subscriber to get all of Virginia's reporting and bonus subscriber-only episodes. 

Disclaimer: Virginia is a journalist and human with a lot of informed opinions. Virginia is not a nutritionist, therapist, doctor, or any kind of health care provider. The conversation you're about to hear and all of the advice and opinions she gives are just for entertainment, information, and education purposes only. None of this is a substitute for individual medical or mental health advice.

BUTTER & OTHER LINKS

christyharrison.com

Listen here for Virginia's conversation on Christy's new podcast, Rethinking Wellness. 

Virginia's first book

the SIFT check

Love Is a Revolution by Renee Watson

FAT TALK is out! Order your signed copy from Virginia's favorite independent bookstore, Split Rock Books (they ship anywhere in the US!). Or order it from your independent bookstore, or from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, Target, or Kobo or anywhere else you like to buy books. You can also order the audio book from Libro.fm or Audible.

CREDITS

The Burnt Toast Podcast is produced and hosted by Virginia Sole-Smith. Follow Virginia on Instagram or Twitter.Burnt Toast transcripts and essays are edited and formatted by Corinne Fay, who runs @SellTradePlus, an Instagram account where you can buy and sell plus size clothing.The Burnt Toast logo is by Deanna Lowe.Our theme music is by Jeff Bailey and Chris Maxwell.Tommy Harron is our audio engineer.Thanks for listening and for supporting independent anti-diet journalism.